Where do you come from where dogs are eaten?? Just as an FYI genius you also an animal..perhaps we can eat people to? let's start with you...

I see a lot of ridiculous things in the news, but this... This is just... Who ARE these morons? Why would they stop volunteers from coming in to help take care of this problem? They suddenly want to do it themselves? And want to be PAID?! Get the hell out of here! The next person to suffer an attack should be one of those idiots.

NOT morons!! Just highly trained dedicated Bahamians who are tired of being disrespected by people with a shallow understanding of the issues

I don't get it...there's a huge stray cat/dog problem in the country. I haven't noticed it getting any better. Someone comes in to help and all of a sudden "the Bahamians can do a better job"? Why weren't they doing it all along? Maybe everyone can't pay $50 to spay their animal, are the local vets prepared to go in the communities where the problem is and offer their services for free, not just a token showing but a real effort country wide?

Many Bahamian vets have "been doing it all along" and have been doing low or at cost spays for several Nassau based animal welfare organizations
Of course many persons cannot afford $50.00 to spay their family dog. Hence ARK, Proud Paws, BAARK, Pink Potcakes, Stray Busters, etc. Local vets have participated in these programs that have allowed indigent persons to access free spays and neuters.
Many Bahamian vets have assisted with spay/neuter projects in many Family Islands. More so in the past year than ever!

How many years did you say? After, I'll be fair, 4 or 5 years without an obvious dent I'd say the "same thing" is not having the result you want. Some directed help might be a good thing. Do you drive into the community or must the community come to you?

No not morons!! Not getting paid!! Patriotic volunteers giving up their own practices for a day or two and getting re-imbursed for the materials they use. Read my post and apologize!

You think you vets are the only ones giving up your practices??? Almost ALL the foreign vets gave up their practices for TWO WEEKS this year.
Most of the volunteers gave up their full two weeks of holiday a year, some volunteers suffered business losses to help the animals and improve the Bahamas, so don't start about being patriotic
.
Not many Bahamian vets did the same may I add, one or two days here or there. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves!!
You're a lunatic if you think we believe your B.S. Bizzell.

they are not morons, but vets are generally disdainful of the BHS

there are horrendous problems of stray cats and dogs in eleuthera and abaco and grand bahama, move operation potcake there

Many of our Nassau based veterinarians worked at some time or another for BHS. I do not think they hold BHS in disdain...I would say that there is a better working relationship between the vets and BHS today than there has ever been.
25 years ago many Bahamian vets were struggling to establish their practices against strong competition from BHS who charged ridiculous low
prices because they had the benefit of a wealthy President and a continuous flow of funds from fund raising activities.

Business is business……..people shop where they can afford to shop and some have to use free food banks. Why do you think being in the Vet business should be any different?

It really is mind boggling how dumb some Bahamians can be. Even the "educated" officials at the highest levels in government. Too stupid to even understand they're getting a free hand out. It's like saying "thanks for helping us, now you have to pay us". SMH...

Actually not so! Giving their time for free and getting repaid for the costs incurred in the surgeries!

You're obviously one of the dumb ones. The vets are coming to the Bahamas on their own dime to help. Now you want more from VOLUNTEERS. Open your damn eyes!!!

I'm lost for words.

Read my later post

Once again **GREED** motivates the decision making process! This activity does not cost the Bahamian people one red cent! It is done out of care and concern and in fact, actually saves in the long run.

This ridiculous proposal proposal from the VMAB will do **ABSOLUTELY NOTHING** to alleviate the Potcake situation. The people who bring their dogs to these clinics would not otherwise do so. So the VMAB is not out a penny! Furthermore, those volunteers who come from away pay their own way, pay for accommodations, pay for meals and other things - in other words THEY ALSO CONTRIBUTE TO THE LOCAL ECONOMY!!

*Proverbs 12:10 tells us that no one should be cruel to animals. And it tells us that in the eyes of God the person that takes care to love, and fill all needs of their pets are rewarded and looked upon as righteous and good. Those that are cruel and abuse their animals will not be looked upon favourably.*

Where's the greedy?? Bahamian vets volunteer their time, give up their practices for a day or two, use their own resources which cost around $50.00 per dog and get re-paid for these! The current cost of a dog spay in the USA is at least $300.00. If I spay 20 dogs for you at $50.00 each I make no profit I repeat....Where's the greedy.....

so the real issue is that you want the supplies purchased from you, not donated from anywhere else? I don't see why the local vets would not want to stand beside these volunteers and double the amount of strays neutered/spayed. why are we denying help that we clearly need and is not doing anything but benefiting our country.

Read the post about the actual cost of supplies.

The only sensible part of your post is the Biblical quote with which I wholeheartedly agree. Please read my post below and understand a little more about what we are offering to do!

Bahamian vets to me have visibly demonstrated a lower rate of professionalism with a higher rate of hucksterism. I realise that vets have to make money, but being a vet indicates a supposed concern for animal welfare. This latest move puts all Bahamian vets on the level of hypocritical preachers who fleece the flock. The vets have demonstrated that they are not worthy to practise their profession in the Bahamas.

As I said before, banker, don't make the mistake of painting them all with the same brush!

I am praying that enough world attention is brought to this problem and that of other Caribbean Islands who have a severe problem with stray animals. As for the asses at VMAB they are as stupid as one gets. Most of the strays in the Bahamas are either not owned by any particular person. If a groups of strays live in one general area...lets say 10 or more dogs as an example. Does the VMAB think that a poor person with no income is going to bring these dogs to a vet and pay for spay neuter. Let's be real...the vet association says that Bahamians can fix the problem yet it is clear they have a PR machine that is broken or have doe nothing to prove their merit as an organization who cares about the terrible conditions that exist across the Bahamas. Strays are huge problem in all parts of the world. The more dogs/cats that are not spayed or neutered will inherently produce an ongoing problem that will never be brought under control.

The local vets are idiots...take a FREE project to one that we have to be paying them for...they should be volunteering their time and working alongside the foreign vets working in tandem...for FREE to get more dogs spayed and neutered...if they TRULY want to address the stray dog situation. But they won't even do it for free or help the other vets...all they want it the $$$$$$$$. Idiots.

No no no! Not idiots!, read by post below and apologize!!

You are trying to defend the indefensible. You and your colleagues apologise to the Bahamian nation,

Any chance of getting a free loan from your bank, banker?

I would be happy to pay $50 for each local Vet that is spayed or neutered. They should never be allowed to breed.

Just to make sure we dont breed any more of them

Too late!! Most of us have already bred! Read my post below and try to properly understand what is going on here!

This is some B.S. are people this stupid and greedy... Some greedy, selfish, stupid people came up with this one.. The volunteer system was working and more importantly the animals were being helped by people who genuinely cared about them. We have a terrible pot cake problem, its unsafe, unsanitary, and cruel to the animals. i can remember being bitten as a kid by a stray, this is rediculous....idiots...

Th government is even worse they when along with this brainless plan

No not idiots!, Please read my post below and try and get someBahamian pride in what the VMAB are trying to do....or are you one of those Bahamians who sit on their asses and wait for foreigns to solve the countries problems for them!

This news has gone international. What a sad situation for our country when we tell foreigners they are not welcome even when they are trying to help us solve a problem.

The news is not accurate! Please read my post below and see the truth.

Sadly the news is completely accurate.

Not so Jack; it's a hysterical attack on the Bahamian veterinary profession.

Well deserved and about time it would seem to me.

NOT HYSTERICAL -- well deserved.

How sad that not only are the unwilling or unable to donate their time and service in the same manner as the "foreign" volunteers but they are so "blind" they they are willing to stand in the way of those that are. It would have sent a much better message to Bahamians if they had simply embraced the help and contributed whatever time and services they could.

They did offer their time and service for free! Just wanted to be re-imbursed for the expenses incurred in each surgery. Please read my post below

Stop telling lies. You know better.

Not lies...time and skills donated...someone else picks up the tab for the materials used. What's so hard to understand d about that?

Actually, he is not telling lies. I have donated to several spay/neuter projects in The Bahamas including Operation Potcake and Proud Paws. Unfortunately most people do not think long and hard enough to realise that, even when veterinarians - whether local or foreign - donate their time and expertise, surgical materials still have to be paid for. This is where we, the donors, come in. Yes, the spays and neuters may be performed for no cost to the people bringing them in, but the materials are paid for either by the vets, or by donations. In my experience the average 'at cost' surgery in The Bahamas is $50. Also, there are added difficulties in living offshore. My experience has been that everything costs more in The Bahamas EXCEPT veterinary medicine. I am always happy to donate to spay/neuter projects but I am becoming dismayed by the number of people who actually believe that these projects are free.

Ok...let's take out the free concept for just a second...why block the foreign assistance? Answer me that...what wrong are they doing to you to block them...why?

Supposing this is true - why on earth would you have a problem with the additional help.? Sorry this is just not the way to have handled the situation if you were expecting to be seen as the caring professionals. Had you embraced the volunteers and worked along with them you would be presenting a completely different picture.

Why would they reimburse you for supplies they were giving you for free? and I keep hearing you say the vets offered their services for free during OP 2013. Which vets worked? Which clinics? How many days? How long this work each day?

Bizzell, please stop trying to convince people that the Vets are not only in this for the money and can fix the problem alone. If they could have fixed it, they would have fixed it. The problem did not just pop up last year!

You complain about foreigners, yet you are one, correct?

No Truth Sayer I am a proud Bahamian!

Why are we so good at shooting ourselves in the foot? Where are we going to get the money t pay our vets $50/dog? We like our animals but very few of us are willing to shell out that kind of money for animals that we hardly know. We don’t want them hurt but we can’t pay to have them fixed. Having volunteer vets come in to spay/neuter these animals that our vets won’t do without pay is a perfect solution. Are our vets really that insecure?

Apparently so...because Operation Potcake was SUCH a high risk to their daily business of dealing with all the other NON-spaying problems that people have with their pets...yeah right!! As a pet owner, if I got a new animal, I am not about to run up to the crew at Operation Potcake and ask them to spay or neuter my dog for free, I'm a responsible pet owner and I would still use and pay my local vet out of respect...and because the O.P. crew have a lot more wild strays to worry about than my one looked after animal...so yeah...having this team here is such a major threat to what the locals do, day in and day out...give me a frikkin' break, I hope they feel the true shame and reflect back on this and realize, albeit to late, that they really screwed up and let the country down as a whole.

Wrong! The first free spay/neuter project I did was in Freeport in1971. At the time spays cost $30.00. The first client who presented his dog for a free spay was a multimillionaire who owned most of Bahamas Terrace!!! Ask the architect who lives on Skyline Drive why he thought Proud Paws should spay his two purebred dogs for free!,
Please read my post below

Who cares if he was rich?? If you are in it for the animals and have the animal's best interest at heart, then spay the dogs! and if you had half a brain, you would have been super nice the rich guy and talked to him about donating money to your project and kept being nice to him, invite him to fund raisers, etc.

Talk to him about about getting shots for his dogs, blood work done, dentals, etc. You could turn him into a client for the next 10-12 years! That is way more money that you would have made off the spay. STOP BEING SO SHORT SIGHTED!!

Turn lemons into lemonade.

That is exactly what I did but he remained tight fisted in spite of his great wealth and never wanted to spend much
on his dog.!,.

Bahamian Vets not at all insecure! A spay costs $50.00 in materials whether a Bahamian or a foreign vet does the surgery! Please rad my post below

From the same place as we get the $50.00 to purchase the materials the foreign vet uses !!! Please read my post below

The VMBA must be run by PLP's.

They are definitely defying all logic...that is for sure...then there are the vets!! ;-) LOL

Please read my post below and keep politics out of the discussion!

An Israeli doctor says:
'Medicine in my country is so advanced that we can take a kidney out of one man,put it in another, and have him looking for work in six weeks."

A British doctor says: " That is nothing we can take a lung out of one person, put it in another , and have him looking for work in four weeks.

A Canadian doctor says:'In my country,medicine is so advanced that we can take half a heart out of one person , put it in another, and have them both looking for work in two weeks."

A Bahamian doctor , not to be outdone , says: You guys are way behind, We just took a man with no brain-made him Prime minister, and now the whole country is looking for work!!!!

LOL Good one. HE HE

Nobody is asking the vets to give up their salaries to have volunteers to come here and work for charity - there is a serious flaw in your question. Better to ask, who here is willing to take stray Potcakes and/or Potcats into the vet and pay $50 out of your own pocket to have the animal spayed or neutered. Then to work hard to ensure that the animal is either released to a caring home or at least into an area where they are going to be fed and cared for? Are you?

I have donated to several spay/neuter projects in The Bahamas including Operation Potcake and Proud Paws. Unfortunately most people do not think long and hard enough to realise that, even when veterinarians - whether local or foreign - donate their time and expertise, surgical materials still have to be paid for. This is where we, the donors, come in. Yes, the spays and neuters may be performed for no cost to the people bringing them in, but the materials are paid for either by the vets, or by donations. In my experience the average 'at cost' surgery in The Bahamas is $50. Also, there are added difficulties in living offshore. My experience has been that everything costs more in The Bahamas EXCEPT veterinary medicine. I am always happy to donate to spay/neuter projects but I am becoming dismayed by the number of people who actually believe that these projects are free.

So to reframe what you are saying, if someone tries to game the system, even though the system does a lot of good, its time to shut down the system? You can't cover up the opportunistic greed of the Bahamian vets!!!

banker, as I stated in a previous post, I cannot paint all the vets in The Bahamas with the same brush.

'Shirley you can't be serious!!??'
Do you honestly think that anything the crew from Operation Potcake does is taking money out of the local Vets businesses? Have they ever...and I would like the to comment on this...have they ever gone out if their way to try an initiative of this sort, gone out of their way to help dogs in need for no $$ in return...no, they sit in their offices and wait for sick pets or pets needing attention by caring owners. The majority of the charity to animals is done by people like the Bahamas Humane Society or other similar organizations. The Operation Potcake crew are zero threat to the livelihood or salaries of the local vets, and they ought to be ashamed of themselves for not joining forces with the team and giving of their time...giving back to the community, helping animals in need that have no owners or $$ to pay for services...in this case, just a simple spay or neuter. Give up their salary for foreign workers...you are as bad as them...they are not here to start up some clinic to compete with the local vets. Idiots...the lot of you and them that think that way.

Exactly. They cater to people who can pay and not everyone can pay, that why there's a problem.

They also cater to people who cannot pay by assisting with low and at cost spays on behalf of the several animal welfare groups

"At cost" is that the same as free"? And how is it different from "Low"? I thought I read somewhere here that the **cost** of supplies was $50 dollars. many of us "haves" may not comprehend it unless we have been in it, but 50 for some people is the grocery money for a family of 3. They cannot afford to spay 4 or 5 dogs. It probably more than they make a week and after gas and food there is little left.

Free is what a poor client gets, low cost is much less than the normal price and the vet makes a small fee for his time and expertise; at cost is a spay for which the vet charges only the cost price of his materials.

The poor client gets a free spay, the vets a low fee either low cost or at cost
Depending on the deal with the charity who is paying

Rory - fact of the matter is these dogs would NEVER see a vets office if it were not for Operation Potcake (they are strays and do not have any money to take themselves to a vet - therefore the vets are actually in a BETTER position after operation potcake)- so many loving homes are found for these dogs through this operation that then result in local vets receiving INCREASED business because now these dogs that would otherwise just die on the streets have caring homeowners to take them on regular vet visits. i have 4 rescues myself and i spend more money on vet visits a year then i do on personal doctor visits and i cannot support any vets that would be so selfish to take away the opportunity for these suffering dogs to receive vet care, the possibility of finding a loving home, educating the community on pet care and help get the SERIOUS overpopulation problem we have under control. The local Vets clearly understand the extreme stray dog problem we have in the Bahamas and should be welcoming these volunteers who are giving up so much to help make OUR country a better place. Or lets just let the dogs out there suffer a little longer while the Bahamian vets slowly now attempt to solve the problem because they see what a great success Operation Potcake was last year. They cannot sit here and say that they have this issue under control. SHAMEFUL!!!!

For the record, Bahamian vets have always done cost price spays and large amounts of pro bono work for clients unable to pay normal fees. They also participate in many spay and neuter projects in New Providence and the Family Islands. Proud Paws in the past 10 years has spayed/neutered more than 7,000 dogs and cats in New Providence and has contributed to spay and neuter projects in several Family Islands. All of this good work was performed by Bahamian vets and their staff with funds raised from Bahamian residents. No outside assistance was requested nor needed for what is the most successful spay/neuter project ever in The Bahamas.

The Tribune Survey re Operation Potcake is a "TRICK QUESTION"!!!

The question more accurately should have been framed;

Do you prefer dogs to be be spayed/neutered by volunteer foreign vets using funds raised from animal lovers at a cost of approx $50.00 each OR

Would you prefer dogs to be spayed/neutered by Bahamian vets using their anesthetics ,antibiotics,needles,suture materials, pain meds, which cost them approx $50.00, for they would be re-imbursed by the organizers. Oh by the way, the Bahamian vets bring their Bahamian trained surgical assistants and pay them their usual day's pay!

Dr. Bizzell...I mean no disrespect with what I am about to say here...I really don't....but out of any of the 'local' efforts to spay and neuter...what is the annual spay and neuter count? You complain that doing this even at cost...plus we are still paying our assistants a days wage...would you not embrace an army of volunteer vets to speed up the process? Let them come in and do the work instead of costing you money...you can focus on what makes you money and let the crack team of volunteers come in and do the no pay work...what purpose does it serve the VMAB to block this if it is not a monetary thing...break it down for me because I am at a loss here...and as someone who supports prqoud paws...I am shocked and seriously disappointed...my aid in that respect is done.

B_T_D_, as a transplant to this country, I think it is understandable that, as more and more Bahamian vets qualify, that they want to be responsible for veterinary medicine in their country.

If you are Bahamian, would you want foreigners to come in to do your job?
On top of that, is it not insulting to have non-professionals [i.e. animal lovers like myself] dictating what should be done in the realm of animal welfare to the veterinarians. If I were a veterinarian, I would be rather put out.

While there must be co-operation, it should be up to the vets to invite their foreign colleagues in as it is deemed necessary.

Imagine if activists started inviting foreign dentists, physicians, lawyers and architects into The Bahamas to practice their professions?
Quite simply, it is not their role!

No one is "dictating what should be done in the realm of animal welfare"! The VMAB worked with the OP directors and they AGREED to support the project, AGREED to doing 1000 spays and neuters for the cost of $30 per dog for the next 5 years, AGREED they could not take on the issue of animal overpopulation and needed a comprehensive project like OP. They were involved from the VERY BEGINNING!

So if it were me that was one of the volunteers, who worked for the past years to build this project, raised money, took their vacation time, contributed their own resources, set aside differences with other groups to work for the common good of the animals and the community, I would be rather put out, as you say!

and if you had a huge problem, that the dentists, physicians, lawyers or architects could not handle that was causing a public health and public safety issue, they yes, they should ask for assistance to work with them to fix the problem. Those people don't want to stay and take the jobs of Bahamians, they just want to HELP!.........that is why there are organizations like Doctors without Borders, Operation Smile, Vets without Borders, The Red Cross and a million others.............THEY JUST WANT TO HELP!!

For the record, just because you are a Veterinarian, that does not mean you are involved with animal welfare. Those of us that are involved with animal welfare are rather put out by that statement.

7,000 animals divided by 10 years is 700 a year by my calculations. Operation Potcake did three times that amount in ten days.

I agree with your Maths; when Proud Paws was going full blast we did 1,00-1,500 per year. I believe that the best way forward is a continuous project with all clinics participating with a target of 60 pets per week or 3,000 per year.

That would be AMAZING Bizzell... but why not do that AND let the foreign vets come in February and do as many as they can? Say these vets were permitted to come next year and are able to perform 1000 spays & neuters on top of the 3000 you are projecting Bahamian vets will do - would sterilising 4000 dogs & cats be somehow worse than doing 3000? What is the real problem here, I don't get it? To me it seems like a non issue, if the goal is to prevent further overpopulation & suffering...

Ohhh I get it, instead of solving the problem right away for free, lets take our time and make it expensive? Are you part of the PLP government?

at $30 like you agreed to?

You are totally missing the point. This is an area of business that the Bahamian vets can never capitalise on because Bahamians do not spay and neuter strays.

Someone tries to do some good for the country, and like most Bahamian human potcakes, the vets are trying to enrich themselves in a very opportunistic greedy fashion when someone tries to do good for the country.

As a banker please explain how a vet can get rich spaying dogs for $50.00 when the materials used cost most of this fee and when they can probable spay 20 dogs per day? Even if the dogs were small and the materials cost only,say, $35.00, that means the net profit for his work would be $300.00. Then he pays his staff, power, nat insurance, etc etc. Is this "greedy vet" ever going to get rich? Your a banker please show me how?

I only get to visit your lovely country, but I've been there enough to say "Mudda Sick!" to this. The local vets lose no money for having volunteer vets come and do some routine surgeries that prevent more needless suffering for these animals.They are strays, no one would pay for them anyway. The volunteers come, do the work, and maybe spend some money while they are here. Then maybe, in time, the tourists don't see these sad looking starving animals, and wonder what is wrong with this place. And before anybody starts, I have put my money where my mouth is---I have 2 Potcakes!

If it wasn't so sad this story would be hilarious, makes me all warm and fuzzy to think that some money grubbing, two faced, selfish, moronic, imbeciles are out there saying they care about animals, but you have to pay them to care. Foreigners must think we are about the worst kind of people in the world to turn them down, I hope this story gets out to world. What a bunch of rot that they say how magnanimous they are giving up their time and their hard earned money. Man is suppose to watch over gods creatures not let them come into a life of torment and suffering.

All of you kind "special, loving" vets will get your reward when god calls you up and asks well what did you do to make the lives of the potcakes better?

Wrong! All Bahamian vets were asking for was to be re-imbursed for the materials materials they use in the surgeries!!! Yes I expect to see many of my vet friends on the other side of the Rainbow Bridge!, Hope to see you too!,

Attention ALL HUMANS! It has been decided among ALL BAHAMIAN POTCAKES that there are many Veterinarians and other worthless Bahamians who have let us down. We are what you are! When you do not take care of us we will become a problem for you that will remain out of control. We will come after you with a vengeance for forgetting that we need to be loved and cared for. We cannot talk with our mouths but we feel pain, we cry inside and suffer at the hands of those who ignore our basic needs. We will never forget those who left us to suffer. We will continue to love those humans who love us. Signed "The Bahamian Potcakes and Potcats".

Firstly, I'd like to thank Dr. Bizzell for his comments and his attempt to speak on our behalf. I am a veterinarian in the Bahamas and have seen my fair share of suffering at the hands of selfish owners with little to no regard for their own animals, viewing their own animals as they would a paper cup or plate... Simply disposable.
As I read through some of these hateful comments, tears fill my eyes.. If any of you could walk a day in our shoes, to see the suffering, removing maggots that have eaten all the tissue down to the bone, having to amputate legs because the leg has been festering so long that it's all but rotted off, watching animals come in dying of heart and liver failure and gasping for air, animals ingesting rat poison and on the verge of death...
If any of you could walk a day in our shoes, you would feel differently. I LOVE what I do! I love driving home at the end of the day knowing that I saved just one more... Just one more cat or dog.... Knowing that I helped just one more makes it worth while. I personally drive around nassau feeding stray animals.. I've done it before vet school, fostered and rescued all through vet school and continue to try to make a difference in ANY way that I can. No one is making a profit... Believe me I've worked in the US for many years and vets in the Bahamas DO NOT work for profit, so far from it..We do it because we love what we do.. I encourage anyone, please call your local vets come see what we do and then You decide... Is it worth casting that stone?
Life is too short for hate and negativity.

You need to get out there and be more visible...hiding behind your glory does nothing to educate some of the dumb ass people who bring these animals that are suffering...as an association your group should lobby the government for laws to protect these animals along with severe punishment when convicted of animal abuse. I am tired of all the BS and wasted talk in this country...these animals have no voice and at least the VMAB should be that voice for God's creatures. Your organization need to get up off your asses and do some good the animals.

For your information new laws concerning animal welfare have been drafted and passed through the House of Assembly. Several of our VMAB members worked on the committee that drafted this legislation . It took a long time and the full cooperation of the vets and animal welfare groups. Now finally the Animal Control and Board has been formed and the work of implementing these new laws can begin.

We don't sit on our asses much! We all work hard in an extremely demanding profession and all of us are compassionate and have a great love for animals; if we did not we would not last long.5

Yes but laws at least give us a place to start. Without laws where do we begin? And we have to be very patient; changing things takes a long time!

If there is so much work to be done, and you have these people willing to come in here and HELP you all...why block it? WHY? What purpose does it serve? Embrace them with open arms...work WITH them, ALONGSIDE them, take advantage of the extra hands...for FREE. tell me why blocking this is of any benefit to any of us, except for you all for some monetary benefit...that is the ONLY reason why a program like this has any backing to be blocked...it's causing you to lose money.

Actually, there is no such thing as a FREE spay or neuter. Local and foreign vets may charge nothing for their time and expertise [as they did in Operation Potcake], but the surgical material must be paid for - either through donations, or, by the vets themselves. Please see my post below for a more detailed explanation.

WELL SAID! If the vets REALLY did care about the core issue which is the animals suffering they would be thankful for people coming in to assist!

The lack of understanding of animal welfare in The Bahamas has come as a great shock to me. I have made several posts tonight because I am a lay person who is interested in animal welfare in The Bahamas.

I am not originally from this country but, having made it my home, and being an animal lover, I have taken time to learn about the issues. I have donated to several spay/neuter projects, including Operation Potcake and Proud Paws, and know that it is as a result of donations such as mine that these so-called "FREE" projects can take place.

Surgery costs money, even when the medical professionals charge nothing for their time or expertise. Just because people who bring the animals in do not have to pay does not mean that the surgeries are not being paid for.

People have to be educated that there is no such thing as a free spay or neuter. Someone is paying, even if it is not visible. Maybe there should be a rule that all donations made within The Bahamas be used to pay for the cost of surgeries done by Bahamian vets, and any foreign vets coming in should not be allowed to raise money in The Bahamas.

Can you imagine a Bahamian vet going into the United States and raising money there and then being allowed to perform spays and neuters?

Unfortunately, I think that people are reacting without thinking things through. We need a public forum where wise, unemotional people from both sides of the issue can discuss this subject and educate the uninformed.

Thank you Zags.... Finally.. Somebody is home!!

You're missing the point. How are these people taking money from you? Most of the people contributing to the problem cannot afford to pay you 50 dollars to spay each of their animals. They will never come into your office....they may be responsible for up to 5 strays running around their neighbourhoods and that's just one family. Will you do it for free?

Of course there is an absolute need for free and low cost spays hence the several animal welfare groups that sponsor these surgeries. All vets here participate in these programs and in this way give back for the good of the animals and the Bahamas.

That's fast and loose.... How many free hours do they actually donate as compared to the hours offered by the foreign group?

I am in no way suggesting that vets should not make a living and have any obligation to be more altruistic than the average Bahamian, I am just saying that the help does not hurt. More than likely this is a case of personalities getting in the way, just like at BEC, once that happens common sense goes out the door.

They each probably donate more time each week than any other profession. How many hours

do accounts, doctors, lawyers, bankers donate?

"...hence the several animal welfare groups that sponsor these surgeries." That says it all. If struggling animal shelters and rescue groups are paying local vets $50 each, that is NOT FREE service provided by local vets. Low cost, yes. Free, NO. Giving back entails giving. Not covering your costs by charging others who also did not contribute to this problem and who incur many additional costs in housing, feeding, transporting etc all these animals to your clinics.

Yes life is too short for negativity Dr Lawrence which is why it's so sad we the people of the Bahamas have been put in this situation by the local vets. So dry your tears because we wish you could walk in our shoes as volunteers that go into the community in OUR OWN TIME and see the pain and suffering as you do. It's not just about the spays and neuters, it's about the community spirit that Operation Potcake has created. It's about the massive educational drive that will make the next generation of Bahamians more caring people. It's about going into yards across the island en mass and working out ways to help the animals together with the owners. Operation Potcake brings the people together from all walks of life and and gives them all a warm fuzzy feeling about caring for animals. It's about Bahamians and foreigners standing together and working out a solution because many hands make light work.
Why would the vets possibly want to stop this wonderful momentum that has been created?? You tell me if you care about animals so much?
I know the answer and it's greed and short sightedness

Jack, there is no reason that the wonderful process you describe should stop! Continue the good work, keep contact with the people you have helped, partner with the local vets who have volunteered their clinics and their time for spays and neuters.
Why do you think that foreign vets are such essential part if this process?

Jack.."A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".. Why wait for one time of year to come together or lend a hand? We educate people every day. Everywhere I go, my friend, not only while I'm at work, I do it every day..I don't wait for the show and hoopla, don't need the photos or crowds... Just see a hungry sick dog or cat and help.. As an individual out of my own meager budget.. Why? Because it's just the right thing to do...You call that greed?? Really..? Hmm.. Call it what you may I will continue to do what I love and you do the same.

Dr. Lawrence you are correct. Though I do not know you, as a participant in animal welfare projects, I have noticed that it is only when foreigners come in that there is recognition of what is being done in the animal world.

I do know Dr. Bizzell, and I know how much he has done through his clinic and Proud Paws, in New Providence and in the Family Islands over the past forty odd years.

They always say that you are not a prophet in your own land, but it is a pity when those with only spotty knowledge of a situation have the loudest voices.

Bizzell and Dr Lawrence, both your replies have demonstrated that you just don't "get' Operation Potcake and THIS is the real issue here. If you can't work it out from my reply above then there is no hope and the Bahamas is doomed on the animal care front. The "hoopla" Dr Lawrence, helped us get the people in the doors, yes, people who never in a million years would have got off their lazy bums to help their dogs did. Yes, you can pick up a sick or hungry dog, but what is wrong with having 100 or more foreigners and locals get together for a big event to help on a much larger scale? We all win, not just the odd dog or cat you pick up.

It's also about getting enough volunteers. The "hoopla' got us a load of volunteers that never would have given their time. Having a big program once a year gets everyone together for a common goal. It's very hard to drum up volunteers on a regular basis and many people I know had planned on giving a week of their holiday time EVERY year to help with this project in the Bahamas. Why on earth would they fly from across the world for 3 days? So now we have to rely only on the same locals who give every bit of their spare time instead of spreading the load.

Bizzell we need foreigners because you can not do the job on your own. In one breath in your letter you say you can, it the next you say you're cutting down the days to 3 because you can't handle it, Which is it?

No one suggested that we ONLY do Operation Potacke on a large scale. It is in combination with the many smaller efforts that occur every week with the Bahamian nonprofits. If you have not seen that then you're blind.

Dr Lawrence, you and the other vets have allowed yourselves to be conned by Bizzells archaic views. I'm sure you and many of your colleagues are good vets but you really, really don't understand what Operation Potcake is all about and that is such a shame.

Because doing 700 surgeries a year has obviously not solved the problem; although doing that many is great, it's a band-aid to this massive problem and this problem grows on a daily basis as more puppies and kittens are born daily into lives of misery and suffering. No one is suggesting that foreigners be allowed to come in for the next hundred years. The idea is to get some high volume s/n vets in here for a week or two at a time, as often as necessary, to target and hit hard the biggest problem areas. There are some vets for whom this is their specialty. Why would we turn away vets who can do 50-100 surgeries in one day - are there any high volume s/n specialists in the Bahamas? If not it's ok! Most private vets even in the U.S. are not high volume s/n vets. These vets coming in are not private vets looking for a relaxing vacation on the beach. They are vets who have honed their skills in s/n and want to give back to suffering animals everywhere. Why in the world would we turn this down, it defies explanation. The point is to do as many surgeries possible in the shortest time frame possible in the worst areas - it's called targeted s/n and it is the only thing that will get a handle on this problem. After which time, the idea is that the local private vets will do the maintenance s/n that needs to be done all along as of course more dogs are imported, bred etc. And some will inevitably be missed or unable to be done even during the most intensive MASH clinics. What about continuing education? Why would local vets not want to take advantage of working alongside specialists in these efforts? Does the VMAB require continuing education for annual licensing? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity especially for young local vets to learn from seasoned high volume spay neuter vets? What in the world is wrong with that??? It can only help everyone. The day that anyone in any profession, thinks they have nothing left to learn, is probably the day they should retire. We can and should all strive to learn as much as we can from whomever we can about our respective fields and interests. This whole thing is just sad.

I agree

So how do you feel when you see animals smashed up in the street and people just go past like its normal and 100% of the time they stay there and rot. We need to control strays even more now than before seeing that we have highways and why isn't anyone advocating for fences or barriers to prevent these creatures from accessing the busy roadways. I have never heard of any initiative by vet to spay of neuter pets free more persons who can not afford to have it done. I know that there were programs in place like BARAK and ARK but they would have to pay for these to be don't at your private clinics to voucher no surgery

For a project of this scale, cooperation among agencies is essential for success and sustainment. However, it does seem that the VMAB is now backtracking. They seem to be trying the ‘we never said that’, but it’s clearly written in black and white:

“With much deliberation we have come to the agreement that we can confidently use our expertise as veterinary professionals to manage the demand of a mass spay/neuter clinic, **without the need for outside surgical assistance**… Firstly, we politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries… We have given consideration to the fact that all of the slots for a five day clinic were not capable of being filled by all of our local vets, so apart from having “substitutes” from **outside our borders** it seems feasible to reduce the number of surgery days to ensure that each clinic is covered daily with at least two local vets.”

So now the argument is ‘that is not what we meant’. So what did you mean then?

You state now that it was the decision of OP 2014 to cancel and that you merely wanted to open negotiations, but if I were to guess I'd say that you are surprised that OP did not just roll over and accept your demands, but instead cancelled the event.

My understanding is that the vets of the VMAB were offered the donated supplies to use and as much time as they were willing to give up, **OR** they could use their own supplies at a cost of $30/spay or neuter. Seems fair to me…so the crux of the issue is foreign involvement (pride) and money (greed).

As a nurse, I too have seen suffering. I have seen maggots in wounds, limbs amputated, death and devastation of the human kind and I know it is no easier with animals. As a nurse I have gladly given up my own time to volunteer for mass efforts and have worked along side physicians who have demanded nothing in return for their time. I have seen mass efforts in Haiti, in the US post Hurricane Katrina and most recently in the Philippines. Medical supplies are donated, time is donated and compassion is always free. I don’t believe that in any of these situations the local physicians would say, “we got this, we don’t need any foreign help”. So why is this any different?

A massive combined effort from all of those who see the need for such compassion for our animal counterparts combined with ongoing, smaller local efforts would go a long way to correcting the problem in a humane way.

Stop backtracking, if the letter you sent is your true position then be strong enough to stand behind it. Otherwise, get over yourselves, apologize to the people who have worked so long and hard for this to become a reality, suck up your pride and accept the help that is so obviously needed.

Last year during Operation Potcake both local and foreign vets volunteered their time free of charge. No vet was paid for his or her participation. In addition, all surgical material used for the spays/neuters was supplied to the participating vets for their use. These supplies which cost approximately $50.00 per animal were bought with funds raised locally.

There is no such thing as a FREE SPAY [or NEUTER]. A spay [or neuter] may be performed at no cost to the owner, but the materials used have to be purchased - whether with funds raised through contributions, or by the vets purchasing them from their suppliers.

The following question was posed in a Tribune 242 survey today:

"Operation Potcake has been cancelled following opposition from local vets. How do you think the spay and neuter programme should be run?"

The options were:

"As they did last year, foreign volunteers should be allowed to operate for free"

or

"Local vets should undertake the project at a cost of $50 per surgery"

Unfortunately, the premise of this question is incorrect.

Neither the first option, nor the second is a true statement.

The correct choice of options should have been:

As they did last year, local and foreign veterinarians and their staffs providing their services free of charge and being supplied with all necessary surgical material paid for with funds raised locally, at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

or

Local veterinarians and their staff providing their services free of charge, and being reimbursed for all surgical material which they supply and use for the spays and neuters at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

In each case, the cost per animal is $50.00.

The mistaken idea that the foreign vets' surgeries are free is ridiculous: All surgery must be paid for.

Foreign vets are coming into a situation to assist the local veterinarians and everything that they need is provided. When local vets carry out spay/neuter projects within the islands of The Bahamas they purchase and take along their own supplies.

Unfortunately veterinarians in The Bahamas get a bum rap. This may be because they do not go around tooting their own horns and, perhaps, because few people know how much pro bono work they actually do.

I have never seen any other medical school graduate [in The Bahamas] treated with such disrespect and it is in stark contrast to the way that veterinarians are revered in other countries. I have never experienced the way [my fellow] lay people and animal lovers feel that they are as qualified [to make decisions concerning animal welfare] as a veterinarian who has been through years of medical school.

As lay people we should be embarrassed by our own behaviour and comments; we would never dream of disrespecting our physicians in this manner.

Learn more about a topic before you vent, there are always at least two sides to every story.

The foreign vets that came in for Operation Potcake are all experienced in high-volume spay and neuter. The vet who was scheduled to come for the cat clinic calculated she could perform up to 100 surgeries a day if we could provide her the cats. Many of the Bahamian vets are unable to do the numbers in a day that any one of these vets can accomplish. The previously mentioned 7,000 animals over ten years works out to only 700 per year. Operation Potcake in January did over three times that number in ten days (2,315) with vets who donated their time, paid their airfares to come here, took time off work, and gifted us with their skills. Are our local vets so afraid to accept help that they cannot allow these people who are willing to donate their time, money, and energy to assist them?

My point exactly...the more the merrier...why block it? Explain to me the rationale for blocking it. I am still lost. Do we continue with the status quo and 'hope' our local clinics can improve their numbers above 700 a year...or do we welcome a shot in the arm to help things along. The VMAB is very wrong in this respect to kill this project. I fully expect the locals to prove they can swing 2,000+ a month...not in a year...two years, or ten years...TAKE THE EXTRA HELP!!
Sorry...but still idiots in this respect...totally handled incorrectly and made the local team look terrible!!

Our local vets can easily spay/neuter 3,000 animals per year provided this program is properly funded. The advantage of an on-going program such as this are:
1. Each animal gets proper exam and evaluation by local vet who can follow up with additional treatments and care for problems such as tick borne disease, heart worm treatments, preventative health care etc.
2. Any problems arising can easily be handled by the vet/clinic who performed the surgery.
3. There is no mad scramble to reach a target but instead a methodical, continuing program which will eventually end our pet over population problem.
4. The Bahamian veterinary profession will grow with an additional 14 vets over the next 4 years when 14 students presently in vet school return home. This will allow this project to accelerate
5. The participating vets can spay and neuter their patients in a familiar clinic with an experienced team on hand. These at cost spays can be integrated into the clinics normal work day.

Still don't get it!! You are contradicting yourself and I am losing more and more respect...this team came in and did over 2,000 in a couple weeks and you are saying the local vets should be capable of 3,000 per YEAR...are you hearing yourself. Are you not seeing the scale of the problem...proud paws is doing 700 a year and we are being overrun by wild breeding dogs. Oh the hell with it...let's shut the whole thing down...work to rule...vet union...block any outside assistance...let the town go to the dogs, literally. Your pride is killing you with a PR nightmare.

Actually, B_T_U_, when you understand the situation Dr. Bizzell is not contradicting himself…

2,000 [in a couple of weeks] once a year is less than 3,000 per year. And, 3,000 per year can be sustained.

I do not know how many vets there are in Nassau, but if each of them did 700 per year, like Palmdale Veterinary Clinic, that number would far exceed 3,000.

I would prefer to see 3,000 animals spayed and neutered by Bahamian vets in their Bahamian clinics year after year with the chance to turn these first timers into clients even if they only occasionally bring their animals back, until the problem is solved than see an occasional visit by foreign vets who would have no lasting interest or connection with the patients they spay and their owners.
In my view the organization and implementation of a 3,000 per year program would be a
source of pride for Bahamian vets and Bahamian pet owners in general and would be a major part of nation building.

So the stray dogs are going to walk themselves into your clinic and hopefully be return clients. Wow...you really have gone around that bend.

No as with Proud Paws they would be collected and returned to their owners

There's that other elephant in the room again "in the clinic". My coworker, who can afford to pay the regular fee btw, relayed the story to us about the OP truck coming to his door. More than likely he would have been happy with that dog as it was for 8 more years, never dawning a vet's doorstep until some ailment arose. By then the poor dog could have had 25 great gran puppies (and that's if he were picky)

Well here's a question, if it really costs them $50 why dont they just stay in their clinics and make money and let the foriegn vets come in and work 12 hour days for FREE? Let the supplies be the headache of the organizers.
AND if the foriegn vets are such a blow to their egos, how about they just leave their supply inventory with the organizers and let them get it all and they just show up, hands swinging, and perform surgeries with the provided materials? Maybe its because it will show that maybe, just maybe, the supplies dont really cost $50 and they are in fact in it for the MONEY

Why don't you ask Operation Potcake and Animal Balance to release their financial statements for the spay/neuter 2013 project. In fact I am asking now: May we please see financial statements for Operation Potcake/Animal Balance including the list of donors with amounts? [I was one of those donors]. It is time for the general public to be informed of the trust cost of surgery. There is no such thing as a free spay or neuter, somebody has to pay [or donate].

I think it would be very useful if somebody could actually, accurately, break down the precise cost of spaying a bitch and a cat, then neutering a dog and a tom.
The break down should NOT include the usual expenses of electricity, water, insurance, or overheads as this would be in a mash clinic...I guess the price between a large dog and a small dog would differ, so we would have to average it out...transportation would not be a factor either... Is there somebody out there prepared to list in detail ( quantities of meds ect). gauze, sterile wraps, sutures, alcohol ect....to equate a totally accurate per dog, per cat price...
I believe that would be a very useful exercise for this discussion

Perhaps an easier solution would be we supply the materials for 1,000 dogs and the local vets do 1,000 spay and neuters next weekend.

Surely the BHS vets would be the most impartial source here? And I'm sure animal Balance can give us an idea. I sure as hell don't want Bizzell estimating it.

Jack who cares what you want?

We know what you want? Greedy so and so. You just gave our nation a huge black eye, and made yourselves look like two-bit shysters.

The VET's association whether it pains anyone to admit, has the right to ask for the opportunity to manage national affairs and the government (PLP or FNM or etc) has an obligation to support them in their development.
This boils down to the enduring argument of whether [charitable] foreign investment is better for the Bahamas so we continue to support the financial and structural growth of their organisation or an economy should be shored up as much as possible by local investment.
The Vet association should have cut their support off after the last event or allow this one to proceed informing the public that it would be the last one; but their timing was their only mistake not the decision to kindly refuse further assistance.
What will be interesting to see is if the widespread criticism of their decision would equate to their being ham-stringed (or in 242 term shot in both knees with a sawed-off so they are sufficiently crippled) or if this widespread acknowledgement of the problem will gain them the support they are seeking.
If this was really a question of the short-term vs. long term solution (because it is cheap for anyone to suggest that not ALL parties involved are interested in the well-being of these animals) then the foreign assistance at last year's event would have led to infrastructural development not the perpetuating of year-on-year dependence.
Funding is what helps a foreign organisation satisfy need and need is essential for funding. The Bahamas does not have to be on the inventory of need for every other organisation to justify fundraising but not our own! Charities are businesses as well and animal welfare (spay/neuter programmes PLUS all the other essential services they donate) is is the business of the Vet's association. I hope despite the criticism they can receive the financial and moral support to continue and in short order establish and maintain functional infrastructure that continues unwaveringly to remedy an anti-social situation.

As an aside, you get disrespectful quick! #partodaproblem?

/

The costs of course vary according to whether it's a dog or cat, whether it is large or small, whether it is young and slim or old and fat, whether it is pregnant or not, whether it is a crypt orchid or not, and whether vaccines are given or not, what anesthetic is used, what antibiotic cover is provided, what pain meds are used and what health problems require treatment.

There is no one size fits all in terms if costs but most spay projects cost out at an average price say $50.00 What you make on a male cat you lose big time on a big fat pregnant Rottweiler!

Other costs are wages for staff when done in a clinic, labour costs for sterilizing instruments and power costs for autoclave.

In my opinion spay and neuter projects in The Bahamas should also include screening for heart worms and tick-borne diseases to avoid anesthetic deaths and to assist with post operative
care re preventative medicine.

Keep adding the apples and mangos and you will somehow reach your $50 figure. That being said seems to me you are changing the playing field to justify your actions against foreigners.
By the way Peter you are a foreigner as well.....remember? Perhaps you should abide by the same rules and leave the Bahamas.

Actually "Jack", whoever the heck you are I am a proud Bahamian and I ain't going anywhere !!!

Good for you. We need all kinds of people to solve our multitude of problems. And we need help, we can't do it alone.

Dude...you've lost the plot on this one...best to just stop.

where did this come from......? not helpful to the discussion, off topic absolutely

If Bizzell and company are really offering to do 'FREE' spay and neuter and only want the cost of supplies covered I see no reason we could not give them the supplies and watch them do 'FREE' spay and neuter here in the Bahamas.
No money needs to come to the table would keep everyone honest. You in Bizzell??????

Peter, No reply? Why is that? Perhaps because we both know it is the $50 you seek not the supplies.

Jack I have always "been in". I have been practicing veterinary medicine in The Bahamas for 33 years and have always been a staunch advocate of animal welfare and free/low cost/at cost spays.
I was "in" when I founded Proud Paws and when we did more than 7,000 spays and neuters but have become tired by the lack of respect shown to vets in The Bahamas by the animal welfare community.

community

Peter you failed to address my point. If the animal welfare community obtained the sullies you and your fellow Vets would do the spat and neuter for FREE?????
A simple yes or no would be nice.

That point will be put to our President and members.

What about you? If given the supplies would you do the work for FREE?

I guess not at a cumulative 3,000 spay/neuter a year...pathetic.

No answer yet, how strange.

Well apparently even financed they can only accomplish 3,000 per year vs. 2,000+ in 10-14 days...so there will be little argument...but the program is dead now, so their mission is accomplished.

Our mission is the strays and theirs is the money. Speaking for myself I will do whatever I have to do not to put a penny in their pockets again.

@PBizzell and others, I have read your posts and unfortunately there is nothing contained therein deserving of an apology. I don't condone personaI attacks and I am certain that local vets are as qualified and dedicated as vets anywhere in the world, however, your rationale and logic on this matter is far from obvious. My understanding is that Operation Potcake is a charitable undertaking whereby all expenses for labor and materials are either freely volunteered or covered by donations. I also understand the proposal of the local vets, and correct me if I am wrong, to be that local vets would freely volunteer their time and would request reimbursement of $50 for materials used. My question to you is who do you expect to pay this $50. The reason they are called stray dogs is because they are not readily attached to an owner or an owner that gives a damn. Therefore, it would seem to me that at a charge of $50 the only persons you are likely to attract are persons who are already your customers or potential customers. In either event it does nothing to substantively address the stray dog epidemic. Further, assuming that we all can agree that we do have a stray dog epidemic in the Bahamas, why can't the local vets perform their initiative in conjunction with Operation Potcake if the local vets are truly sincere about addressing the stray dog epidemic and not motivated by greed. Operation Potcake can perform their services with costs borne by donations and the local vets can perform their services charging their $50. Why are the local vets taking the position that these initiatives must be mutually exclusive if their only interest is addressing the stray dog epidemic? Do you think the dogs or cats have a preference whether the surgery is done by local vets or Operation Potcake? This problem did not magically appear overnight and I am afraid the business as usual approach that the local vets appear to be adopting will do little to make this problem disappear.

People who care about animals in The Bahamas willingly donate to charitable organizations who offer free/low cost/ at cost spays and neuters to pet owners who cannot afford these surgeries. Local vets will spay and neuter these pets for $50.00 per animal. Raise the funds, spay and neuter the animals...seems like simple process to me.

All you seem to want is the money. So simple but the strays have no money so I guess we should just ask foreigners to pay for those....but foreigners are evil and cannot be trusted...so what are we to do?

Jack If I wanted to earn some money do you think I would spay dogs at $50.00 each to earn it? I would make more squeezing anal sacs for $10.00 !!

Then why all the fuss over this $50 if it is not earning anyone any money?!!! That is the elephant in the room that has not been addressed. If animal welfare orgs provided the SUPPLIES, would the local vets donate their TIME AND SKILLS for free, as they say they are doing by providing supplies at $50 per. It seems such a simple question; how come no answers yet?

And IF animal welfare groups did find themselves able to raise $50 per stray and indigent owned pet; where then does the VMAB expect them to find the funds for all the other costs such as food for traps, flea and tick treatments, vaccines, dewormers, gas for vehicles, and all the other intangibles which add up when doing a clinic, or even when picking up one pet at a time for s/n. A normal field clinic with VOLUNTEER vets and techs costs $35-50 per pet for everything including all those non-surgery items. So now the surgery cost alone has been jacked up to $50 each PLUS all the rest? IMPOSSIBLE and unfair to expect animal welfare groups to find all this extra money. When there is a less expensive alternative with volunteer help which consists of people using their vacation time and spending considerable funds to get here and stay here simply to help...There is simply no way to justify this or persuade the animal loving public that the VMAB is justified in this action. They are also alienating their best private paying clients, which is really sad.

Dead dogs...same thing...this one people are assisting to fix and can be accomplished...can't fix stupid (society/gang violence)...mind you, I am wondering about some of these vets. Maybe the logic is the same as our police enforcement...we can do it ourselves, so let's shun any outside assistance...heck...let's block it 100%...because we can do it ourselves...or maybe not...but hey...I'm going to pound my chest like the ape that I am and block anyone from moving forward and making a difference.
Stats...700 per year...2 or so a day...over 2,000 in 10 days...but we are going to block you out of spite because you make us look bad...our pride is hurt. Sorry guys...0% respect...or support.

Rory, you are so right!

***GAUNTLET***
Here it goes...I challenge each organization...Humane Society, Proud Paws, ARK, BAARK, and all the others to come in here and say why Operation Potcake MUST BE BLOCKED. Between every one of these organizations cumulatively...did they all as a cumulative unit accomplish what OP did? Let's break it down...give me stats here...because I do support you ALL with financial donations(at least the ones I named...and maybe a few more...it's getting late), so I am all ears here...seriously.

Actually, B_T_D members of some of the organizations you named are also members of Operation Potcake.

Ok...so you all can accomplish this 3,000 per year sustained figure...why the hell shut down a boost or spike of 2,000 extra in the span of a couple weeks? Just seriously confused here, and disappointed as I have supported you all for so many years...multiple organizations, years on end...

Like you, B_T_D_, I am a donor, not a veterinary professional, nor an activist.

The VMAB is being called upon to reverse the decision to cancel Operation Potcake. **We cannot reverse a decision that we did not make**. The people planning Operation Potcake decided to cancel their own project based on a letter from the VMAB that simply voiced the concerns and suggestions of our veterinary body. By no means were these suggestions set in stone, and the VMAB hoped to negotiate the terms and conditions of our services for the program with the organizers of Operation Potcake. That opportunity was not afforded to us before the project was scrapped. There was no further communication from Operation Potcake to the VMAB as it related to the project except a letter stating that the project was being cancelled to focus on other smaller projects, followed by an article in the newspaper. OP 2014 was a way forward for the local veterinary community to cement their dedication to helping the animals of this country. We are however, being criticized in the media about our decisions as a group to want to completely and wholeheartedly provide these services for our country by exclusively doing the work for OP. There is and never was ill will towards foreign vets coming in. We are being criticized for wanting to have a say in the acquisition of medical, surgical and anesthetic supplies that WE would use to spay, neuter, medicate and vaccinate these animals. We are being criticized for requesting reimbursement for those said supplies. We never suggested that OP is taking money away from our businesses. This is by no means a request for payment and should not be misconstrued as such. To think that people regard the veterinarians in this country in such low regard is shameful. The time that we are donating and the assistants that we are providing to ensure quality surgical care mean nothing? Is it so difficult to understand that a group of professionals wanted to discuss their surgical and medical preferences before delving into a project of this magnitude? Not to do so would be a huge misstep and negligent on our part. Miscommunication and innuendo are not the answer to this situation. We have to find a way to bring the welfare of animals back to the forefront instead of focusing on what people view as greed and xenophobia. What you see is dedication, love for animals and love for country. It is a sad day indeed.

Dr. Johnson I presume...you need to be way more vocal and on top of this, since the rest of the VMAB mouthpieces in here are shooting themselves in the foot. I've already yanked any further proud paws involvement for the time being...as Dr. Bizzell seems so set on his mindset...and poor stats. Whatever bridges have been burned due to some VMAB bureaucracy of sorts with the Operation Potcake team, needs to be resolved...QUICKLY. This is a disaster in the making and unfortunately the vets who have spoken are making a bad situation worse.

BTD
Excuse me if I felt obligated to speak out against the disrespectful and ignorant comments posted here. I am proud of my profession and proud of my role in the development of veterinary medicine in The Bahamas. I have always stressed the need for vets to work with animal welfare groups and for animal welfare groups to be supportive of our veterinarians.

Recently animal welfare seem to be intent on dictating to Bahamian vets how their profession should operate in their own country. Of course this is hard to take. I hope the new generation of vets now entering our profession will take pride in their contribution to their country and that they will be able to earn the respect that currently is not being shown to our profession.

You are addressing an entirely different issue and, quite frankly without trying to be disrespectful or presumptious, I would sincerely encourage you and your organization to take a look at your PR approach because some of the responses to the issues raised here have been less than helpful or flattering to your esteemed profession.

You have done nothing to advance the Bahamian veterinary profession. Period.

How little you know!!

Beating people over the head with derogatory remarks is not furthering your cause or position, and is not going to give anyone a warm fuzzy feeling about local vets. Is it not clear to you yet that the majority of people are disgusted and ashamed and this is not going to help anyone's private practice? The very people who are your bread and butter are the ones who are the angriest about this!

I have not made any derogatory remarks, but have been doing my best to reply to the derogatory remarks that have been made against our Bahamian vets.

Dr. Johnson, thank you for your wise words. I also agree with B_T_D_ that you and your group need to explain the nuances of this issue which, sadly, are missed by most people who are only tangentially involved.

Below, and correct me if I am wrong, is what I understand to be a purported excerpt from your letter to Operation Potcake, "going into the next few weeks, knowing that a considerable amount of planning has already gone into OP 2014, we would respectfully like to present to your planning committee an alternative to the current construction of this exercise. Firstly, we politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries, inclusive of the cat clinic at the BHS. We apologize for any inconvenience that it may cause any person, as advanced notice is preferred under such circumstances. We do feel as though we are capable of carrying out a considerable number of surgeries, and would like to make a concerted effort to accomplish a realistic goal all on our own". An objective reader can judge whether you are simply voicing a concern or telling them their help is no longer needed. What I gather people don't understand and maybe you can help us is that assuming we all can agree that we have a stray dog/cat epidemic in our country, why are the local vets taking the position that their services and the services of Operation Potcake must be mutually exclusive when both are striving to accomplish the same objectives

Wow...just wow...

So will the Bahamian Vets still be willing to donate their time if all supplies is DONATED not purchased from each individual vet for $50.00?

The VET's association whether it pains anyone to admit, has the right to ask for the opportunity to manage national affairs and the government (PLP or FNM or etc) has an obligation to support them in their development. This boils down to the enduring argument of whether [charitable] foreign investment is better for the Bahamas so we continue to support the financial and structural growth of their organisation or an economy should be shored up as much as possible by local investment. The Vet association should have cut their support off after the last event or allow this one to proceed informing the public that it would be the last one; but their timing was their only mistake not the decision to kindly refuse further assistance. What will be interesting to see is if the widespread criticism of their decision would equate to their being ham-stringed (or in 242 term shot in both knees with a sawed-off so they are sufficiently crippled) or if this widespread acknowledgement of the problem will gain them the support they are seeking. If this was really a question of the short-term vs. long term solution (because it is cheap for anyone to suggest that not ALL parties involved are interested in the well-being of these animals) then the foreign assistance at last year's event would have led to infrastructural development not the perpetuating of year-on-year dependence. Funding is what helps a foreign organisation satisfy need and need is essential for funding. The Bahamas does not have to be on the inventory of need for every other organisation to justify fundraising but not our own! Charities are businesses as well and animal welfare (spay/neuter programmes PLUS all the other essential services they donate) is is the business of the Vet's association. I hope despite the criticism they can receive the financial and moral support to continue and in short order establish and maintain functional infrastructure that continues unwaveringly to remedy an anti-social situation

My main question is why did this objection take so long to be raised by the VMAB? Operation Potcake was almost a year ago. If there were issues then with foreign vets, cost, etc., then why were they not raised a long time ago, addressed with the groups that organize Operation Potcake and resolved in a timely and adult manner? Truly....this is such an ego filled drama fest. And in the end, it is a lose/lose situation.

We are now hearing what might be the answer to your very good question. It turns out that, since October, there has been a new slate of officers in the VMAB, and they, along with the majority of their members, did not honour the approval which Dr. Bizzell had given on behalf of the VMAB for the participation of foreign vets in OP 2014. The plot thickens...

Shameful.

OK...so here it goes. VMAB claims that they can do it on their own. VMAB claims they process about 3,000 spay/neuter operations in 1 year. Operation Potcake boosts that number to over 5,000. I want to hear from the VMAB what plans they have in store to bring their levels up to over 5,000 and sustain it. You must have a plan in place if you are going to derail OP. Let us know. I don't want what if's or hypotheticals...I want to hear the actions you are are going to take with immediate effect to achieve the 5,000+ results.

From BJohnson's post above:
"There is and never was ill will towards foreign vets coming in."

From the VMAB letter:
"Firstly, we politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries, inclusive of the cat clinic at the BHS. We apologize for any inconvenience that it may cause any person, as advanced notice is preferred under such circumstances. We do feel as though we are capable of carrying out a considerable number of surgeries, and would like to make a concerted effort to accomplish a realistic goal all on our own. "
If there was no ill will, why decline the offer? Especially after you had already agreed that a certain number of vets would be allowed for 2014. Why change your minds?

From B_T_D's post:
GAUNTLET Here it goes...I challenge each organization...Humane Society, Proud Paws, ARK, BAARK, and all the others to come in here and say why Operation Potcake MUST BE BLOCKED. Between every one of these organizations cumulatively...did they all as a cumulative unit accomplish what OP did?

Operation Potcake 2013 was a joint effort between Animal Balance, The Bahamas Humane Society, Baark!, the Pink Potcake, ARK, Proud Paws, the VMAB, the Ministry of Agriculture & Marine Resources, and the Ministry of Tourism and Aviation. The coalition of these groups became Operation Potcake.

My brain is short circuiting...it makes absolutely no sense to obstruct it. Unless of course the locals can bring up their numbers to the inclusive numbers with O.P. Heck...even if the locals get up to over 5,000, STILL do a drive like OP to get up over 7,000. There is no logical reason to kill it, except some misguided pride amongst the VMAB.

It's not pride, its greed. They thought that they saw a way to line their pockets like politicians.

Wow, Rory is right...I wonder what it is about this story. Joined a couple months ago, this is the most comments I've ever seen. Is it the helpless animal angle or the seeming parallel to political hubris.(actually I see banker just made a comment along those lines)....maybe

There are a myriad of human agencies - both governmental and private - meant to take care of human issues - you should take up that failure to do so properly with those agencies. These are a handful of animal welfare agencies none of which receive a penny of government support trying to deal with tens of thousands of suffering animals. If you can't understand that or find some compassion in your heart for those animals, you should probably just stay off this thread. Anyone who has no compassion or concern for suffering animals should still be aware that our attitude towards and treatment of helpless animals speaks volumes about us as a society. There is a proven link between cruelty to animals and violence to humans. So while this may on the surface seem to be only an animal issue, it is also a human one on many levels, from health to crime concerns. Which very few people seem to understand or care about and no wonder this country has become so violent. No offense but really.

Sadly, the Devil is in the Details as previously stated. The other headlines are "Two Shot", and the plane is bust so the Haitians cannot be rescued. In addition, infant mortality rate in this country is out of control; we are plagued with vibrio vulnificus flesh eating bacteria; cruise ships, our bread and butter couldn't dock because the tug is broke and shop owners lost $600,000; there is a flight of capital from the country; crime is out of control; robberies make living unsafe; the economy is spiraling downwards and we have a host of plagues upon this nation.

So why do foreigners take an interest in the potcakes, instead of say, the AIDS camp, or the literacy problem, or the endemic poverty and unemployment? Because when it comes to people, we have self-governance and we as a nation should take care of that. We have a voice. But the potcakes do not have a voice, and it appears that nobody cares for them. These actions show, that we are so base as a nation, that we do not even want to care, unless we are paid to do it. The moral fabric of our nation has rotted, and it is unraveling to reveal ourselves as animals. We have lost our way as a people.

How a person takes care of a pet or treats animals is a direct reflection on how they interact in society as a whole.

Ok, I love animals too. I just wondered what triggered the dramatic response and it may be as you say because they are helpless...

maybe you should be shot too - your words are more violent than the actions of any potcake or dog that I've ever met. You are exactly what is wrong with our country - stupid yet proud, and without a lick of compassion.

Typical Bahamian answer...just kill it. No wonder the country has D average in school and is going NOWHERE. I was on a boat one day & a 7 yr old kid wanted to smash a baby hermit crab because he thought it was gonna bite him. And the parents just watched and said nothing. Morons...

Another typical Bahamian answer. Instead of trying to fix your own damn problem, you point the finger at someone else. Stick to the subject, moron.

This is not intended to become a “he said, she said” battle, however we feel that the organizers of Operation Potcake MUST respond to a couple of remarks made over the last 24 hours.

1. We did indeed try and meet with the VMAB just last week, and were refused to be part of the meeting. One of our organizers recently invited the President of the VMAB to lunch .

2. To say that the letter from the VMAB was an invitation to “merely voice their concerns” is misleading when language such as:

“We politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries, inclusive of the cat clinic at the BHS.”
“We still feel that to send a clear message to our fellow Bahamians, that we are an entity more than capable of managing the difficult task of reducing our strays, and it should be none but our own that assume that responsibility.”
“With that said each veterinarian would like remuneration in the amount of $50 per animal after services are rendered, which we all agree is a nominal fee for our efforts” is used. It did not appear to us to be an invitation for dialogue but a “fait accompli” ; we had the option to take it or leave it.

3. We had dialogue with many of the vets in September and $30 had been agreed upon if they were to supply their own materials, but we buy the vaccines.
1,000 doses of DHLPPvC canine vaccines =$2,469.20

4.In a breakdown of supplies needed for this years OP, factoring in $9,000.00 to the local vets, excluding the vaccines Plus the following supplies:

ANESTHETICS:
Ketamine: $1,038.00

Xylazine:10 bottles...... $500.00

Valium: 100 $11.45 = $1,145

Isoflurane (Gas Anesthesia) 6 x 35 = $210.00

Grand anesthetics approx. $ 2,893.00
Suture material & cold sterilization, gauze $5,000.00
300 Local Vet Surgeries - $ 9,000.00
Vaccines - $ 2,469.00
Anesthetics (visiting vets) - $ 2,893.00

Grand Total - $19,362.00
10% discount = $17,394.00

Just over $19.00 per animal. (includes budgeting local vets $30 a dog)

Minus $9,000 (local vets) total: $17.75 per animal.

The quantities and product list supplied by very qualified, well respected Veterinarian, some months ago Numbers based on Local Vets 300 animals visiting vets 600 animals.

I invite everybody to tell me how the cost per animal is now $50.00, what costs and products is this based upon?

Dialogue is needed, based on facts, not finger pointing and insulting I have endevoured to put down r what I believe to be facts and facts alone…

The VMBA should be more temperate in their proposal and simply let it go on as planned this time, and then make a counter offer for the future. It is too late to cancel now and it looks very petty.

Now Dr. Bizzel does a whole lot of pro-bono work, perhaps more than any other vet in town, but the reaction to his posts comes from the fact that he and his associates charge the highest fees in town.

Potcakes are defenseless creatures, how could they object to help other help them, as vets, is astonishing!!!

And that is exactly one of the things so wrong in this country when God's creatures are scorned and reviled in this way. This is the absolute reason why so many are born and neglected to live a life of suffering.

look this is a dsicussion on one thing , if you hate dogs or are afraid of them,,,point taken. There is honestly no need to say it 100 times, we heard you...noted...have a nice day

by spaying and neutering we are EXACTLY doing what you want cutting down the number of strays...please endevour to understand

I know you are afraid the packs of dogs and rightfully so. But the one thing that is proven and has years and years of statistics behind it, is that simply killing the animals does not work. Spaying and Neutering, plus education, and lots of public outreach is the only solution. That is also a proven fact. So if you want to make your neighborhood a safer place for you and the children, then help spread the word and tell your neighbors to spay and neuter and maybe volunteer to post flyers or have the BHS folks speak at the school or your local church. It will help!

To the vets: can you put aside your differences with the OP program and let them just get on with their good work? In any case, the dogs and cats in the OP realm will never enter your doors because most are wild, stray, or in yards of the inner city. For sure, your personnel will never go out an take the time to trap them, and for sure no payment of $50 will cross the table! OP did such a wonderful job last year in spite of difficult situations (including a robbery) and they will have another successful 2014 if you will cease this posturing and let them get on with their work.

Thank you for that very accurate breakdown of costs. It is obvious the BVMA numbers are padded.

I have read their letter and it is very clear that they do not want foreign vets coming in to work for free. They are trying to backtrack now, because frankly, they are getting destroyed in the media. If in fact, the intent of their letter was to open a dialog about the option for another plan, they might want to rethink who they have write their formal letters. Because from the looks of the comments in this blog (many of which post direct quotes from the letter) everyone seems to have the same interpretation of the meaning.

First they agree to work with the groups that comprise Operation Potcake. Then they see how much money was raised and how much money the volunteers spent getting to the Bahamas and they think (Ka-ching!) we can get all that money and we can say we will do the job and make some money as well! Didn't anticipate the pushback on you plan, did you? Why is everyone acting this way towards you? Because they do not like being lied to, they do not like promises being broken, they do not like people who can't give 10-14 days out of their year to volunteer to help those less fortunate. I'm not as all saying that none of the vet association doesn't volunteer, but the letter from your leader certainly does not reflect that.

So let's say you do 500 surgeries for $50, we now know the actual cost of the supplies is roughly $17, but I'll round up in your favor to $20. They pay you $50 x 500 = $25,000. Actual costs are $10,000. That gives your a nice profit of $15,000. Here is the problem with your thinking, you assumed people were dumb, but they aren't, no even close. Animal Welfare volunteers are some of the smartest people I have ever met and some of the most passionate. That is a bad mixture if you try to BS them and then do something that is not in the best interest of the animals. One can see from this blog, that you have found that out.

In your letter, you also mention you can only do 3 days, just too much of a hardship for you to do more. That doesn't bode well with people either, not people who spend their vacation time going to volunteer to help animals, not the people who plan their days off a year in advance to be be able to volunteer more. So, you grudging offer to work for 3 days and make a profit, even if it is not your normal profit margin, that pisses them off.

In the end whatever is decided about the money, you cannot make the impact required to address the overpopulation in 3 days with just a few vets. Battles are not won by a few soldiers taking out a few other soldiers. It takes an army. You were offered a well trained, dedicated army to help you fix your problem. They deal with the dogs that would never, ever grace the doors of your clinics.

I hope everybody can swallow their pride, lick their wounds and honor the commitments they made.

I just became aware that this is not the first time this year they have done this.

They have done the same thing for years…………and promised, for years, that they could handle it. In the mean time how many thousands upon thousands of animals have suffered while they count their money?

or maybe the amount they figured is from the bulk supplier they've contracted to supply their larger operations/ It doesn't mean our Vets padded anything.

If you don't make any money from it Dr. Bizzell then was does it matter who does it?? Having just participated in a spay/neuter clinic in Turks & Caicos I saw first hand what it takes to spay/neuter that many animals in such a short time period. It was like a military operation. Without the experience and know how of Pets Without Vets (vets and vet assistants!) who been there, done that it would not have been possible. Just because you're a vet does not make you qualified to manage such a large scale clinic. Shame on you and your fellow vets in the Bahamas!!

BVMA,

Do you have a problem with people getting their food from a food bank? Do you have a problem with the parents of a sick child getting free medical care? Would it matter if the people suppling the food to the food back were from the U.S or some other country? Would it matter where the Dr. came from that was treating the child? I know the Nassau has the "good" hospital and the "other" hospital. If you can pay, you go to the "good" one, if you can't you go to the "other" one. I have yet to see one of your grocery stores saying that the food bank has to pay them to get food to feed the needy. But I am guessing that if they did a story on the grocery stores requiring all the food banks purchase their food from them at a profit, they would have the same feedback you are getting. You are not unique, you just made a bad choice and now you reap what you sow……..you keep trying to put a good spin on what you have done and frankly, the hole you are digging keeps getting deeper.

The bum-sniffing potcakes in this situation are the Bahamian vets. Shame on you.

I meant to say earlier that I don't know Dr Bizzell or the other vets involved, they may be a fine individuals. Their paying customers may think them saints for the care they give their animals or the way they treat their employees, again I don't know. But they should really rethink the stand here, let the foreign vets assist in getting the problem under control, no one is saying you don't have the skill to perform the operations. The problem is just so huge right now that it stretches the bounds that you would be able to handle the whole for free. There is nothing wrong with accepting assistance. Once the problem is under control the local charitable efforts may be enough to maintain the environment.

@ ThisisOurs,
I completely agree. I have dealt with Dr. Bizzell before, as well as his associates at his practice, along with other vets on the island with never a doubt of their skills or professionalism. I have never had the experience of seeing Dr. Johnson but have heard excellent things about her too, from more than one person who were very pleased with the care she extended to their animals. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I don't believe the concern here has anything to do with questioning the vets' skills.

The issue here is that the problem is out of control. High volume spay and neuter campaigns at low cost have been proven to work and aid significantly in putting a cap on the problem. Many animal rights groups such as Pink Potcake, Baark etc work hard all year round to spay and neuter stray dogs/ cats on their own time. This cannot be done without the help of local vets and for that, us volunteers are hugely grateful. But doing little by little throughout the year is simply a band-aid approach as many of us have full time jobs and time is limited.

Operation Potcake has happened once before and amazing and successful results were seen. It is not like the vets did not know what they were getting into this time around, having participated last year. If they had any doubts, they should have been communicated up front and early on before out -of-town volunteers had already gone out of their way to arrange travel and accomadation plans. It is simply bad form for the vets to handle the situation as they did. A commitment like this is a large one and no doubt the volunteers and op potcake organizers appreciate the time and effort vets put into such an event-- but confirmation should never have been given only to back out at the last moment. They knew this event was a charitable one from the get go and profits were not expected to be made. If they didn't think they could afford to participate, they should have given notice right away.

Furthermore, the logic behind the decision is simply beyond me. If your #1 concern is for the animals who suffer daily with no voice, then why not accept the help being offered from the foreign vets and assistants? I am sure the bahamian vets would be looked on with great admiration for opening their arms to guests who are willing to help us with this massive problem.

Yeah, I know, I just didn't want it to get lost that these could be good people who've worked hard, established legal businesses etc. They're competent, this is **admirable**, they're the kind of people that we desperately need in our society. They just have a seemingly **very** unpopular stand on the issue here.

Well said, Blackcat!

Spay and neuter is the only proven way. Many studies show that simply killing these animals is not the answer-more only move in to fill the void where other packs and colonies once were. Through educational outreach and spay and neuter, populations die off naturally and in a humane manner. Let us not forget that this overpopulation is first and foremost a people problem. These were originally domestic animals that bred at will and have been turned to the streets with nowhere to go. by educating the public and spaying and neutering, we encourage more responsible pet ownership in a cleaner and safer environment.

As foreigners, we want desperately to help the starving animals of the Bahamas.
I am a strong supporter of the Humane Society of Grand Bahama, owner of 2 loving potcakes, and the founder of The Kohn Foundation, a U.S. non-profit that helps the HSGB raise money for spay/neuter initiatives. We have seen huge improvements in West End, Grand Bahama, as a result of spay/neuter there many years ago. We want to work in tandem with local vets, NOT take their business away. Please reinstitute Operation Potcake for the entire Bahamas, and allow foreign vets to come into your country and help out.
Ellen Kohn, the Kohn Foundation: www.thekohnfoundation.org in Colorado

Dr Bizzel - do us all a favour and stop running after each and every post here trying to justify the despicable actions taken by local vets.

I, and hope many, many, others will be using my Twitter and Facebook accounts to publicise the greed of you and your kind, and I hope that the "outside world" sees you all for what you really are - greedy, uncaring and self-absorbed.

You guys are too funny. You let one little old Vet take you down? You stomped your feet and then called the whole thing off cause you didn't get your way? Always go HIGHER .....pick up the phone and call the Prime Minister who endorsed your campaign!!! You are investing thousands of dollars in this country for Pete's sake. You don't fool around with the likes of Dr. B.......I have been in Animal Welfare in the Caribbean for many years....we only deal with government officials that can actually make these decisions.

Dr. B., congratulations. You took down a big project single handedly. You are a big man. Now stop this foolishness and get out of the way of these good people. Yes we foreigners can be abrasive and we know you don't like us and we don't care. This work is not about us or you.

You guys are bringing in the big guns, the professional vets who can speed dial spays and neuters. I have worked with many of them. Blink and you miss the surgery. Can the local vets do this? If not why are you wasting your time with them? Just do as many as the Humane Society can handle and or rent a surgery room or a gas anethesia machine from a friendly Vet. BHS should have those contacts, let them organize this.

We use the figure of $50 per spay or neuter also. It is quite reasonable. Most folks have no idea the enormous costs of setting up one of these clinics along with the amount of work. If you get no cooperation you go past them and carry on. If the Prime Minister turns you down, you need to call WSPA or Humane Society International who have professionals to work with Governments.

Actually, Peggy, as it turns out it was NOT Dr. Bizzell who objected to OP 2014. He was President of the VMAB when OP 2013 took place, and had approved OP 2014, on behalf of the VMAB, a few weeks before his term ended. Apparently that approval was reversed when the new officers of the VMAB took over in October. It seems that there is much more to this story than meets the eye...

Actually, Zags it was Bizzel and there is plenty of proof I have seen about his stance on this issue and foreign Vets in general.

I can only speak in regard to this situation. One of the main organizers of OP 2014, Laura Kimble, has publicly stated that Dr. Bizzell did give approval, as President of the VMAB, for the foreign vets to participate in OP 2014. That is why they were so shocked when they received the letter from the new slate of VMAB officers in November. We all, wrongly, jumped to the conclusion that it was Dr. Bizzell because his name was out there.

Totally Bizzell behind this. He has done this before and will continue to do it. You can't forget his past......one of his comments about American Vets coming to help in the past...."they just want to come here, drink beer and lay on the beach and get a tax deduction"...........remember that Bizzell? He has a real issue with American Vets in particular.

For your information, Truthsayer, Dr. Bizzell and an American vet conducted a very successful spay/neuter clinic in Current, Eleuthera in May of this year.

Some of my best friends are American vets! Actually they usually come, work their backsides off and then go to the beach and drink some beers which is fine by me.

The VET's association whether it pains anyone to admit, has the right to ask for the opportunity to manage national affairs and the government (PLP or FNM or etc) has an obligation to support them in their development. This boils down to the enduring argument of whether [charitable] foreign investment is better for the Bahamas so we continue to support the financial and structural growth of their organisation or an economy should be shored up as much as possible by local investment. The Vet association should have cut their support off after the last event or allow this one to proceed informing the public that it would be the last one; but their timing was their only mistake not the decision to kindly refuse further assistance. What will be interesting to see is if the widespread criticism of their decision would equate to their being ham-stringed (or in 242 terms shot in both knees with a sawed-off so they are sufficiently crippled) or if this widespread acknowledgement of the problem will gain them the support they are seeking. If this was really a question of the short-term vs. long term solution (because it is cheap for anyone to suggest that not ALL parties involved are interested in the well-being of these animals) then the foreign assistance at last year's event would have led to infrastructural development not the perpetuating of year-on-year dependence. Funding is what helps a foreign organisation satisfy need and need is essential for funding. The Bahamas does not have to be on the inventory of need for every other organisation to justify fundraising but not our own! Charities are businesses as well and animal welfare (spay/neuter programmes PLUS all the other essential services they donate) is is the business of the Vet's association. I hope despite the criticism they can receive the financial and moral support to continue and in short order establish and maintain functional infrastructure that continues unwaveringly to remedy an anti-social situation

Protectionism is going the way of the dinosaur. If we want to survive we must be as skilled, as efficient, as cost effective and as productive as the next person several latitudes over.

There's something deeper in the response to this story and I pray the current government and those who aspire to be in government see it as well. People are tired of the auto entitlement. It is no longer enough to be given the job or a free pass because you are Bahamian, PLP, FNM, a Maynard, a Pindling, a Turnquest. People want results, they want ethical governance, they want people who can leave their egos at the door, keep their eye on the problem to be solved and work with a team of other competent people to produce a desired result. Blind obeisance to Pharaoh is in the death throes.

Back to the local issue, problem - potcake overpopulation, objective - eliminate overpopulation. Doing "something" is admirable but it is not enough. What is done must be effective, must fix the problem.

Local jobs are going the way of the dinosaur, you call it protectionism, when the number one responsibility of a government is to provide the framework for it's inhabitants to carve out a life. Do you think Germany would be the number one economy in Europe if Germans didn't have jobs.

There are barriers to entry to being so skilled, so cost effective and so productive and one I'm guessing is having a sizeable enough operation that lowers costs of supplies and warrants further tax concessions to keep costs low. We don't all want to shop at Walmart because then Walmart would be the only place to shop.
The Vets have challenged themselves to get a functioning operation off the ground and maintain it including other essential services which can be folded into the same fundraising drives, let's not withdraw our support because we are not on the side of the decision makers.

But why do the Germans have jobs? Because they are skilled and well educated or because the govt has implemented policies to force hire an unskilled native workforce? Protecting mediocrity is not a long term winning strategy, in our case I don't even know if we can call it mediocrity, because we're failing.

Regarding the local vets, the numbers I see here say that they cannot handle the size of the problem today. The outside help is only temporary.

I'm not withdrawing support from anyone, as I said previously, these vets are examples of the kinds of people we want in our society, people who've educated themselves are working hard and are making a contribution.

Then obviously successive governments have not succeeded in the task of building the framework but the answer to this can no more be to discard the people than it can be to shoot these dogs dead and make some use of their pelt. In this instance in particular we are talking about skilled people who have educated themselves and implemented social programmes and do donate their time and now they are saying they propose to manage population control and health concerns in a sustained operation and build their own legacy at the same time.

What if the conversation between the two parties went like this:

Bahvets: Great, looking forward to OP2014
Forvets: Us too!
Bahvets:We have a list of suppliers that we'd like to use
Forvets: Nope sorry. Pulls out, cries to international community, sings we are the world in dog and cat, (but not admitting that they need to guarantee the application of supplies procured to guarantee even more supplies next year at a better price to service charitable and for costs operations across their network) bully! bully!
Bahvets; Fine we'll do it ourselves (not admitting negotiating the procurement of supplies for same reason but feel, rightfully so, deserving) (Maybe bit off more than they could chew, maybe not)
Headlines: Vets face uphill struggle with shot foot
Public: bully! bully! Neuter the vets!

Pause

I said what if...my point is egos are almost certainly involved where people are concerned, but mostly the commenters have supposed that they are incapable, proud and greedy. They deserve the opportunity to build and maybe build a legacy that services Bah, the Northern Caribbean, the whole Caribbean, SA,, NA, the world, the universe etc or maybe fail...

You might find that our labour policies are the same or similar to those of Germany. Our population does differ by approx. 180 degrees but with all the high minded superiority and egos (and money) of the privileged class you'd think we could work out the problems of inefficiency and poverty in a generation (like Malaysia maybe) and be on the road to all of us being smartie-pants!

Agreed successive governments have failed in moving the population either forward upward or onward.

Agreed more than likely egos are at play.

Agreed local vets were turned into evil villains somewhere along the way in these posts.

Agreed everyone on the road to smarty-pantsization might not be a bad thing.

I myself am not smart enough to know all the answers, I just know some basic things. We need good ethical leadership. We need people who are willing to work together to address problems. Egos need to be left at the door. We need a better educated workforce. There's nothing wrong with accepting help if only to get that step up.

Anyone can have the answers, even kids: #kindergarten!ha #JackAndrakasuperbjob, it's whether or not you are willing to do the work and stay the moral and ethical course.

Personally there are three places, answers or not, I will never work: in a classroom, in a courtroom, and in political office (shudders)!

I appreciate honesty,
the only thing worse than a weak man is a bully! #meekshallinherittheearth

If the Vets have said they got this, then they got this, we could apply all the foreign generosity to the other social issues right, but I suspect, if there are no benefits to be had (money, land, contracts etc.) then there would be no one there to 'help'.

Therefore I applaud a group for finally saying sh1t is out of control, we gat to fix this ourselves!! #howevertheycametotheconclusion

By your reasoning we should then ban all foreign direct investments because locals or the government can do it, ban all foreign teachers because the local teachers can handle it, ban all foreign/imported medicine because local pharmacist can handle it, ban all imported food because local farmers and manufacturers can handle it and the government should put in place the infrastructure for all of the above to do so. Trust me that is not the position Germany took. One of the difficulties I have with your argument, and that of the local vets, is the position that these charitable services and the services of the local vets must be mutually exclusive.

And while we are at it let's ban all foreign owned hotels because local hoteliers gat it and for that matter let's ban all tourists because locals gat it. We can rise to the challenge. Maybe a bit extreme, however, using your comparison, which is really not applicable, an economy based exclusively on FDI is as equally short-sighted as an economy that is exclusively closed and it is that concept that makes the local vets position so unpopular and untenable.

In your next post could you put any representation of the ratio of Bahamian-Foreign Investment - monetary;industry; potential for growth, any way you see fit (I even invite you to include illegal businesses)

This is one investment the Vets assoc. have said they can handle and you want to begrudge them the decision? I don't know how they came to this decision but I know it wasn't: we're so dumb, we can't do anything, money money, death to all foreigners! I am easily extending them a little bit of credit here.

Before I was being inched out of the context of animal care...as I am now pushed into a separate argument on FDI my opinion is the following:

There might be an inexhaustible amount of money to invest by foreigners in developing countries like ours but there are limited opportunities to satisfy need - satisfying some need (occupying some role) in society is what makes someone useful, makes someone deserving of money, and capable of providing. I am no more suggesting that we exclude all FDI in favour of propping up the economy on our own than you are suggesting the opposite extreme of the country being owned in its entirety by a foreign power leaving each Bahamian with the singular life's pursuit of one day earning enough to purchase their freedom.
The modern opportunity rush (minus the other libertarian values like freedom of movement etc etc.) threatens to disproportionately divide the population into Bahamian employees-foreign ownership if FDI goes unchecked and as the salaried workers have fewer opportunities to own/earn it will be increasingly difficult to improve on their circumstances then as the foreign employers further dictate the terms of migration into the country the Bahamian workers face further competition to occupy a role in society (and with the state we're in some might argue no competiton at all).

Opportunity is often way more valuable than the money paid for it.

Balance is needed in all things. How do we balance? Well for starters when an organisation like the Vets association say they can handle operating a charitable business give them a shot at it. I assume a few things in my defense of their position:
They have new experience of running the operation as last year's was the first, so where they have failed in the past they may have a new understanding of efficiency;
They have newly graduated Vets with fresh perspectives;
They may try another route maybe regional - you help solve ours we help solve yours (there are a multitude of avenues to success)
Through all the criticism they may have forgotten but they have won the opportunity to show what they can do - and yes the financial incentives to do it;
If they fail the problem and the opportunity to solve it will be up for grabs again; They were involved last year (they were involved this year...almost)
They may ask for help again;
This has turned into one giant stick for them, they might not have known when they made the decision; when they made the decision they might have only seen the carrots, but carrot or stick they now have a major incentive to succeed.

And just what does this have to do with foreign vets volunteering their services to assist in addressing the stray dog/cat epidemic. The inference of greed has been drawn not because the local vets want to charge $50, but because when two identical goods or services are being offered and one of them cost 50 times the price of the other, all things being equal, the more expensive item would have less demand, a point which has been stipulated by the local vets. What is puzzling most persons is that if the objective is to address the stray dog/cat epidemic by performing as many surgeries as possible then why make a decision that conflicts with that objective. I guess based on the above the answer is that it is really for our national development.

IT mostly has to do with your extreme interpretation of my argument, if you don't want to waste time then neither do I but when you framed your previous argument to suggest you required a basic understanding of proportional investment I took the time to explain my position.

Squarely on topic 50 times the price is hyperbole, the matter of supplies is from what I gather where the negotiations broke down and the partnership split (see my earlier post on 1 of the many ways those negotiations could have gone). The Vet assoc decided to keep calm and carry on with the objective to spay and neuter as many strays as possible (not an unfamiliar situation even where charitable businesses are concerned). It was after that this issue grew so many other legs and turned into this monster. Now it seems that they are being force-fed the foreign supplies because they are so much cheaper when in fact they do not propose to fund any of the other needs of the strays in year round concern and care and as much as this issue affects the entire nation, they offer no assistance in the professional development of Bahamian professionals in animal care.

I believed them when they said they needed help before I believe them when they say they don't need the help now. I wouldn't care if they ask for help later. I do know that this criticism is already amounting to more work for them and if the public would rather stay in opposition than get behind THEIR decision then the public would rather see them fail. I would like to see the project succeed and as the Vets have challenged themselves to make it succeed then I would like to see the Vets succeed.

To change my mind I would require intimate knowledge of the negotiations, the suppliers, the financials (private and charitable) and possibly new developments in vet science to determine if the most efficient surgical methods are being employed.

But them that would make me a veterinary professional so instead I trust them first and reserve judgement

No one is withdrawing support. Operation Potcake organizers have worked with the Vet association from the beginning. They were part of the overall plan....from the beginning. They have been invited to attend every meeting (interesting, when the vets met about this issue, they did not offer an invitation to OP. OP asked to attend and were told no.....great way to show you want to work with others, huh?) The vet association said from the beginning (about 2 years ago now) that they could not take the time to tackle the problem, but offered to do surgeries for OP during the year at a cost of........Wait for it..........$30, this included money for them, supplies and to pay assistants. OP would purchase vaccines. They were to do, collectively, 1000 surgeries during the year, between the big OP clinics. This is what THEY agreed to do, ThEY said they couldn't take the time for the big mash clinics (and they are still saying that, as they can only offer 3 days a year to help the problem) So I would like to see their numbers on how many surgeries they have done during the year? My guess is not many. In the end it is the VMAB that has pulled their support, in the end it is the MVAB that refuses to work with others to fix the problem. You say they have challenged themselves to fix it, yet they have on multiple occasions said they cannot do it. In the mean time, the dogs and cats are breeding while they figure it out. This is not a new problem and having volunteer Vets come in to assist is not going to threaten their jobs. These animals would NEVER, EVER end up in their clinics and while they sit in their clinics, the animals suffer on the streets. It is time to swallow their pride and do the right thing. There is a certain grace in accepting help when it is offered.

Well as long as you are not withdrawing support. Please be careful that your criticism and altruism does't paint them into a corner either. I'm sure they know by now outside help is available but they don't want the help for now, that's ok by me Godspeed Vets!

Great job showing the world how stupid you are.

?

I don't know if I AgREE WITH HAVING ALL DOGS AND CATS SPADED AND NEUTERED AS AN ANIMAL CONTROL FEATURE. THE REASON WE HAVE A STRONG AND AND RESIALNT DOG AND CAT POPULATION IS BECAUSE THESE ANIMALS WER ALLOWED TO ROAM AND BREED FREELY. Only the strongest dogs and cats of a pack were allowed to breed and only the fittest of a litter survived. When some viruses hit this island pedigree dogs and cats drop dead like flies, but the potcake survives.. Yes spay and neuter when the population gets out of control but never let it become an annual affair

The population IS out of control. I believe it would take 5,000 spay/neuters per year for 5 years to get it under control.

And you Sir are a major part of the problem.

So, based on your estimate above, have the local vets committed to performing 5,000 spay/neuters per year for 5 years?

I just found out why dogs drink out of the toilet.
My mother said it's because the water is a lot colder in there.
I'm like, How does my mother know that? - Wendy Liebman

Veterinarians are sooo expensive.
I said to my vet "What's the life expectancy of a boxer?"
He said "Fifty thousand dollars". Elayne Boosler

Why does the dog at the top of the page looks so happy that he is getting spayed? Says it surely beats child support.

Dean's Blue Hole is on 60mins!!! (Why are those guys wearing PLP tshirts?)

At the end of the day 3 things have resulted due to the position and actions of the Bahamas Veterinay AssociationOperation ..
#1) the massive spay/neuter operation has been cancelled.....well done the Bahamas veterinary association.
#2) the Bahamas Vet Association has shot itself in the foot and created a huge public relations disaster for itself with both the Bahamian and International public...well done the Bahamas Veterinary Association
#3) the Bahamas Vet Association has negatively impacted the Bahamas brand internationally....well done the Bahamas Veterinary Association.

To Dr. Bizzell and any other Bahamian vets reading this....its time to oust your Association president and governing body as incompetant and vote in a new team who actually have working brains,common sense and a modicum of public relations savvy to clean up this mess.

This is a re-post:

Last year during Operation Potcake both local and foreign vets volunteered their time free of charge. No vet was paid for his or her participation. In addition, all surgical material used for the spays/neuters was supplied to the participating vets for their use. These supplies which cost approximately $50.00 per animal were bought with funds raised locally.

There is no such thing as a FREE SPAY [or NEUTER]. A spay [or neuter] may be performed at no cost to the owner, but the materials used have to be purchased - whether with funds raised through contributions, or by the vets purchasing them from their suppliers.

The following question was posed in a Tribune 242 survey today:

"Operation Potcake has been cancelled following opposition from local vets. How do you think the spay and neuter programme should be run?"

The options were:

"As they did last year, foreign volunteers should be allowed to operate for free"

or

"Local vets should undertake the project at a cost of $50 per surgery"

Unfortunately, the premise of this question is incorrect.

Neither the first option, nor the second is a true statement.

The correct choice of options should have been:

As they did last year, local and foreign veterinarians and their staffs providing their services free of charge and being supplied with all necessary surgical material paid for with funds raised locally, at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

or

Local veterinarians and their staff providing their services free of charge, and being reimbursed for all surgical material which they supply and use for the spays and neuters at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

In each case, the cost per animal is $50.00.

The mistaken idea that the foreign vets' surgeries are free is ridiculous: All surgery must be paid for.

Foreign vets are coming into a situation to assist the local veterinarians and everything that they need is provided. When local vets carry out spay/neuter projects within the islands of The Bahamas they purchase and take along their own supplies.

Unfortunately veterinarians in The Bahamas get a bum rap. This may be because they do not go around tooting their own horns and, perhaps, because few people know how much pro bono work they actually do.

I have never seen any other medical school graduate [in The Bahamas] treated with such disrespect and it is in stark contrast to the way that veterinarians are revered in other countries. I have never experienced the way [my fellow] lay people and animal lovers feel that they are as qualified [to make decisions concerning animal welfare] as a veterinarian who has been through years of medical school.

As lay people we should be embarrassed by our own behaviour and comments; we would never dream of disrespecting our physicians in this manner.

Learn more about a topic before you vent, there are always at least two sides to every story