..

Amidst all of this debate on payroll tax, VAT, and national lottery NOWHERE...I repeat NOWHERE have I heard one sentence regarding how the government plans to decrease it's spending and create a budget that is in keeping with what funds they do have. In fact all I have read is where they have spoken about borrowing more money to build RBDF boats, money to outfit the new emergency centre at PMH, money to pay back their portion of the Bahamar project and money to build a PM residence.

How about instead of taxing the already struggling Bahamian people the government gets a clear and detailed budget that outlines spending that is NEEDED and cuts back on these unnecessary expenditures?

I really need Bahamians to open their mouths on the things that need to be address and stop letting the government rape and pillage.

This is it. The government cannot stop spending money. They are totally out of control. The country is broke and they are finding something new every week to spend millions and millions of dollars on. And there is no accounting for how the money is actually spent, nothing at all to ensure that there is fair bidding or that money is not being taken off the top by these political leaders. We have a serious problem, and it's the people running the government.

Please people, wake up to the fact that this is why you hired them, to spend your money, not to save it for you like they want you to believe.

Or to build roads. Man this is difficult to get people to understand that Statism is a conditioned disease injected by governments, just like child abuse is often done by trusted caregivers.

Now we know why we weren't hearing the alternatives. I get it. I could marinate on this.

No one wants to admit the truth in this country including LBT.......... there is too much wasteful spending in government, there are too many high interest government loans and there is too many government accounts receivable (outstanding taxes etc.) AND too many grubby fingers in the cookie jar

Agree with all the comments...all we are hearing is tax tax tax, debt debt debt...but not the first word on concrete plans and procedures to cut spending. Let's go ahead with a payroll tax...it doesn't have to be high for the minimum wage earners, and can get progressively higher for those that earn more and more...I have no problem whatsoever with the higher earners paying a higher tax. Even with bracketed rates, the implementation of this using the current NIB model would be so easy, almost a no brainer. VAT is NOT the way to go!!

And who is going to determine how much self employed persons make???

Right now, only about 25% of that group pay NIB contributions on time.

We are just terrible at paying taxes............ ADMIT IT!!!!!!!!!

100% agree there...if we are not going to pay our existing taxes...when you add more taxes, the stupid law abiding citizen like myself will do their duty and pay the new tax, while the same dodgy buggers out there will circumvent it...again. Either get the dodgers to pay, or expect a revolt from the honest citizens who are bearing that burden. And silly me, who pays all my taxes...and will pay the new taxes, has to pass those increases onto you all in the form of increased margins to cover my new expenses. Then what happens...all those people who are dodging the taxes, accuse me of hiking up prices and gouging the public. SMT!! Kiss my grits...I am going to join the ranks of corrupted and use my business prowess to figure out how best to deceive and dodge those taxes.

And all of those who refuse to pay, because it is actually THEFT if we have not agreed to it individually, are now called criminals!

How is it that the People are so easily turned into the bad guys? Government sits back, goes on lavish vacations, talks smack constantly, doesn't collect from Big Hotel or Big AnyMan. I don't think we pay them for what they clearly do a lot of (nothing). I'm not in for collecting taxes through my business for their lazy hides, not from hard working staff or from hard working customers!

By being a citizen, you agree to it individually. Might want to look into how America and big companies theft on persons by calling them capital and claim all sorts of subsidies on them without the individual being entitled to anything, even the knowledge of (Walmart prime example). Might want to start with these foreign insurers here, or big investments that government doesn't bring to your attention like the lotto Mrs.Turner is highlighting, or even bigger losses. It's less risk of being incriminated when the collection system is simpler and broader, no accountants needed. You don't expect to be penalized for applying for your license correct? Because it's a simple process where the same rule applies to all. If you've felt that fairness hasn't applied in the past, this is exactly why one tax rule for all is what will bring change. No room to seek loopholes to grant favors or to target. No risking losing your favorite store.

Or it's not hard to pay taxes online like you can your bills. Bahamians don't want to give a penny, but don't want the government to bargain cheap for investors. Yet we want to live like the wealthy who come here and we can afford a reasonable tax on well earning persons. Admit it.

Clean lotto. Got one.

Easier just to hit the poor folk with heavier taxes than try to clean up and collect what is owed and cut spending. Real Property Taxes are just a DROP IN THE BUCKET as to what is truly owed in taxes in this country that is being 'overlooked'...and overlooked quite heavily due to political affiliations and cronyism. Will make a LOT of enemies if you force your 'pals' to pay those taxes they've ignored for the past 20-30 years. And on that note, man, I've already budgeted how I am going to spend this years real property tax on something other than paying it to the govt!! Gonna be sweet!!

Collecting what is owed is much easier than starting up a tax, and using a system that is already in place isn't really starting up much. Although people owe that for over years and it will take a bit to obtain. Perhaps a income tax is like a loan to the cheaters overdue payments, and hey the INTEREST on that could be our PADDED RETURNS ; ) Let's not be so easy on those suckers, since cutting frivolous spending can happen last year. How did Jesus turn 2 fish and 5 loaves to feed the 5 thousand. More fun part is we get to gamble in payment and might become rich for paying taxes. It's better in the Bahamas.

The Reds would wager on donkeys racing against thoroughbred horses, if they thought it could boost their "after Hubert" damaged image. Comrades read this and what does it tell you? It speaks to when in power the reds said and did nothing to address revenue shortfalls. Sorry Loretta you red shirts in opposition are viewed by the vast majority of Bahamalanders to be about as fake as the "professional" wrestling we catch on we televisions.

I would love to see the report that Shame Gibson was threatening to publish with how many 'Reds' were dodging RPT and other taxes...but let's make it a fair fight and have the yella-belly's in the mix too...but hey, they all went squealing for cover and dodged revealing anything, even though it is LEGALLY REQUIRED that they do...even went so far as to say it violated their privacy in doing so. Politicians on both side of the fence are shameless cowards who would rather talk crap than put up the facts and deal with it.

It might have been before Hubert damage. The roads were alos ver much Chinese let's not forget. That loan had a very low interest rate and the even brought in their own which cut costs. They are still investing 300m now for the reconstruction and rehabilitation of roads and bridges. What they should do is have some be tolls, that would cut crime as well.

For a payroll tax to generate $190 million based on 5% tax, the average Bahamian payroll based on those figures would be to be $400 a week. If we are going to go with a direct tax might as well broaden it and make it a progressive income tax.

Most might think that $190 million at 5% is better than $200 million at 15% but if I am correct, the net means that they are taking into account the revenue gained after the revenue loss from reducing custom duties by 17%. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

In addition, spending cuts need to be made but over a 3-8 year period; so to not to distort the economy as well.

No such thing as progressive income tax. I would never agree for Big Gov to take anything from my hard earned pay for their incompetent spending and wasting of resources.

People do asue al the time yet are so reluctant to pay an income tax which in turn grants individual public leverage with government.

Spending cuts need to happen yesterday. We need the boats bc there will be plenty of activity next year. But they need to cough up the extra $50+ million on that.

New Zealand...income tax (payroll tax)...shock and awe!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_i…

New Zealand Income Rates

Top rate: 33% from $70,000
30% - $48,001 to $70,000
17.5% -$14,001 to $48,000
10.5% - $0 to $14,000

The Median being 24% (rounded up to the nearest percent)

New Zealand GST rate 15%

With the income tax being direct and the GST being indirect. The direct tax takes more revenue for the government but the indirect tax allows the citizen to decide to spend and pay 15% rather than automatically having 10.5% scaling upwards taking from your paycheck.

What do you think Liberty means?

AND WE STILL WANT TO COMPARE OURSELVES WITH NEW ZEALAND

APPLES & ORANGES

I am just saying I prefer to be taxed indirectly. For example, I make $400 a week at 5% proposed payroll tax. I now have $380 ($400- (5% of $400=20)). Now I go and spend the remainder and buy $200 worth of weekly expenses. I now have $180 ($380- $200).

Under a VAT/GST/Sales tax
I make $400. I buy $200 worth of groceries at 15%(Additional $30 tax from at 15%) That is $400 -$230 = $170. I would have saved $10 under payroll/income.

Then I say hey this VAT taking too much of my money so I reduced my weekly bill to $180. I pay $27 in VAT from 15% of $180. $180+ $27 =$207. $400-$207 = $193. Therefore, I now save $13 more than from under payroll scheme.

Hence the moral of these calculations is to show that I have control over what I spend. I do not have control over my salary and why would I want a pay cut anyway?

Furthermore, this is under the assumption that employees pay the entire 5% and if the employers pay half then, we must hope new workers do not take a pay cut cause that would reduce the governments forecast of revenue

Also bear in mind that EVERY country that has implemented a VAT or GST came from a taxation structure that already included a payroll or income tax...yet we are going to try to do it differently and better. Yeah right. We ain't dat smart!!

I have no evidence on this but I would assume that the reason that income tax/payroll came before VAT is because VAT is a new tax started in the mid 20th century. After a few of the European countries saw it wonders, the world started to adopt the VAT and its hard to remove taxes once they are implemented probably why they still have both. So the best outcome would be to reduce the rates on both not to tax us out the country.

On a side note, taxes aren't bad if they are well spent which I think we all agree on. I need these roads fix and kept maintain so i can comfortably drive my little car on the road without my small self bouncing in the car cuz the potholes too deep.

USA doesn't have VAT. Many states have no income tax. Let me ask you another question Liberty: how is payroll tax indirectly taxing you? Boy, it sure is easy to get people to agree to give up their earnings for our lazy fat government.

and about muh roads, are you serious? What a Statist you are! Liberty my ass. Right, a business wants to build on an island, do they ask government to buy them a boat? Come on. They never fix the roads. 95% of the money allocated for roads goes elsewhere. They have clearly stated that money collected from new taxes would not go to paying down the debt but rather to increase government "services." Please research and track your dollars before you go trying to influence people that government should take mine.

*************" I buy $200 worth of groceries at 15%(Additional $30 tax from at 15%)"
In conclusion you are saying you would have saved just $10 with Vat over income tax yet it's to much to give just $20.
Keep in mind VAT is on everything whilst income tax is on one thing. So VAT may not be just $30 on top of your usual grocery bill, you must add that each entity which got it to you already added a 15% each time because VAT taxes the product and services. So include the increased cost on the shopper, shipper , storage house, and whoever else. Now recognize that addition for all of the different prices of everything in your cart. When shopping in the states would you prefer to pay 7% all items or buy a membership reward card for a flat price and shop tax free on anything you want?

Now we also know how little people were expecting with VAT . Proof they weren't ready to be shocked. ***************************

Indirect also allows business ( who are probably the least pro public savings) to hike prices on their already costly yet low quality products. VAT gives them reason to retaliate against other regulations imposed, as BEC often does. It also gives gov a opportunity to bribe with tax write offs.

I don't have a problem with paying a payroll tax -- just as long as it comes with a commensurate benefit. If I have to pay 5% over $600.00 per week, then I should be able to claim an unemployment benefit greater than $300.00 per week -- who can survive on that anyway!!!!

You already have unemployment benefits. We have NIB. Payroll tax has nothing to do with that. Besides you're not supposed to live on $300.00 per week, you're supposed to find another job. It's there to help, not to be a replacement for actually working. Why would anyone work if they got paid the same to sit around doing nothing all day?

Have unemployment benefits for right now but can't continue to afford them if the treasury doesn't earn enough income. There's reasons some people cannot work. One might be that there are no jobs. Probably contributing to sitting home is that nothing is done to place the overqualified willing bahamian to a lower end job that they still desperately need until a rare fitting position becomes available. The immigrant willing to take grossly less gets it instead
( don't forget you're new).

What is up with these red shirts. Did Loretta run this Income tax thing by her party caucus or is she becoming just another self-appointed leader, like Comrade Bran? While Minnis is spring boarding off the vanished Malaysian Flight 370, all to score political points against PM Christie and MP Chippie is claiming things about the plane flying in "space," do we really need hear from the deputy red shirts leader, on some overnight brainstorm she picked up during her sleep last night, all the while diminishing, decent paychecks across we Bahamaland are becoming ever more noticeable by the hour.

I can guarantee you that the politrickans paychecks ain't diminishing!! They got them well secured, heck, isn't it time for a raise?

Add new taxes and the fat politicians get raises and new homes!

"this government is so hellbent on introducing VAT that they have dismissed the suggestion. " It might have even been Minis who just said no so at least something has come out like there should have been from the beginning if the socialists weren't forcing it. As if we were joining the eurozone or something. Why did it have to be VAT in the first place instead of a true broad invitation to ideas on how to fund ourselves?

Is it the general assumption of Tribune bloggers who are obviously from the red shirts mentality that the poor shouldn’t get a free breakfast for nothing? I think you call it an "entitlement society?"
Comrades allow me to give you a visual awakening of how red shirts really feel about struggling Bahamalanders. This very morning "talkie Show Host" Darold, had a former FNM candidate, live on-air as his guest and without any probing by Darold, clearly out the blue “sky,”this red shirt, voluntarily said that; "Bahamalanders who lineup in the mornings for a free breakfast, should first be handed a broom and be made to sweep the streets, before they are handed a little some'tin hot, put in they hungry early morning stomachs." I only wish I had been making-up Darold’s guest’s and Minnis's insensitive remarks, but even satire has its minimum standards, of when not best act like a damn clown.

Why shouldn't they work for it? Why is it that we just have to give our hard earned food and money away? Who do you think pays for the hot breakfast? People who have worked hard, that's who. Why shouldn't the people receiving it work a little bit too?

Good Lord, look who the reds were making new citizens?

I totally agree...why should people be given handouts. That's part of what's wrong with American society today...welfare. We need not get Bahamians use to the idea that they should get something for nothing. If you are able bodied then what would it kill you to work to receive something.

I am sick of Bahamians always looking for a hand out, I am neither FNM or PLP or even whatever that D something party is. What I am is a hardworking person who believes if I have to struggle get up every morning at 6am and wade through traffic before putting in eight hours to take home my paycheque then everyone who is physically and mentally able should do the same, or at the least make some semblance of an attempt to work for what they have.

That's why I would never give a man, woman, or child a dollar on the side of the road. You want my hard earned dollar then you do something to earn it. From an early age you see various youths out on Robinson Road by Mall at Marathon with five gallon bottles looking for handouts. Instead of maybe having a bucket with some soapy water to wash down car glasses they rather take your dollar and do nothing to earn it.

I could go on and on about this...I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE PEOPLE WHO WANT SOMETHING AND HAVE DONE NOTHING TO EARN IT.

newcitizen is a foreign oil investor troll. she's only in here trying to get familiarized and push things along to benefit her fellow rapists.

Comrade BahamianAway of course you would agree, after all it's more important getting the reds myth out that there is No such a thing as a FREE CHILD'S BREAKFAST than it would be, handing a hungry child a 50 cents plate of hot pancakes. Satan's evil spirits and temptation whispers, why I should lose my cool and flatten such "plantation philosophy."

Whoop there it is!! Back to the plantation with you Tal, you need to learn some broughtupsy!! Back to work!! Sadly, I am not a huge fan of 'handouts' There are obviously some people out there that are in serious enough need to warrant it, but it gets abused by some people who spoil it for those truly in need. The entitlement I despise is that you would rather NOT work and get no money and expect handouts, because you feel a certain job is beneath you. That's when I start getting annoyed.

As I stated in my comments...I am neither FNM or PLP I am Bahamian- and that means I vote for what benefits Bahamians no matter who is responsible for it.

Seems to be you are of the mind to just hand a man a fish rather than teach him to fish. If you enjoy working hard and busting your a** daily to hand your money off to someone who sits and home and collects your paycheque then by all means go right ahead.

I work hard and I don't part with one red, yellow, or green cent without making sure it's well worth my giving it up. I don't work for free and likewise I don't accept handouts...I was raised to work hard for what I have. Whether it be an education or the money that I get paid bi-weekly. I go to bed at night knowing that I did my best that day and I pray to God he continues to give me the strength and presence of mind to continue doing such. If by some means I lose my ability to work daily then I will do what I can to ensure I don't ever be the recipient of just a handout.

When I am home and I go to the grocery store and I need a broom or a mop do you know which ones I purchase. The ones made by the blind....c

If the blind can make brooms and mops then the person who can see to walk up to my car and ask me for a dollar can do more.

The poor are fed more through Hands For Hunger donations. Seriously.

Well said BahamianAway - its that " all for me baby" attitude that's brought us to where we are now!!

I seldom - if ever lose my cool, regardless of what is said back to me. But bumping kids off the breakfast line to hand them a street sweeping broom is another story Cowboy Comrades. Watch your donkey, if i does loosen me restraint.

When it comes to kids that is one thing...but if you are an able bodied adult, and have the opportunity to work and refuse to because that position is beneath you and your so called pay grade, no, no sympathy or handouts for you. Do you think the people who are hired as day labourers sweeping and raking up the leaves like that job, or the pay they are getting, no. But it is money in the pocket at the end of the day. Other menial jobs like that, are not EXTREMELY labour intensive, but they must be done. Swallow your pride and get yourself out there, be productive to the betterment of the community, instead of a drain on the social welfare.

I am not saying deny children a chance to receive a hot meal, I am speaking about people who are able to work but refuse to because it's easier to receive a handout.

I feel that as Bahamians the attitude of "what you got for me" is all to common and widespread. It starts with buying votes with a free ham or turkey during Christmas or pencils and books at back to school time.

Don't mind my being away I keep saying I am well aware of how things run in the Bahamas and I have experienced first hand the "greedy nigga" syndrome that many Bahamians posses. I have seen parents come and collect a free item and then send their child back to collect another free item and then send another child back to collect another free item, until they have all the free items they can carry but not necessarily use.

I am of the mindset that if you don't need it and you don't know anyone who does then leave it for the person who does need it. Bahamians would accept free shiit cause it's got the word free in it. And that's the mentality that I feel they need to break away from.

Standing on the roadside begging for a dollar to fund your basketball trip is easy and people will give. But hosting a car wash, or a bake sale is even better because now you have earned what you made, the same way the person who gave to you earned what they gave. It gives more value when you have worked hard for what you have.

My mother didn't give me an allowance, I had a part time job that I worked Friday evenings and Saturdays to make the couple dollars I had in highschool. And I can tell you I felt proud stepping into Walmart or wherever and buying my own school supplies. I treated my books better, I didn't lose pens, I didn't drag and scuff up my shoes- because MY money that I worked HARD for bought them as oppose to them being given to me.

Point is Bahamians need to stop looking for handouts and look for ways to better this economy. That's why crime is so high now...people envious of what the other has and not knowing how they got it. Work hard for what you have and be content.

National lotteries, funded mostly by lower-income persons, dont run countries. If a want-to-be leader is not discussing realistic spending cuts and anti-corruption measures (since corruption is a multi-million dollar expense to any nation), then a want-to-be leader is not discussing anything new or worth the lead headline this was given.

How many Tribune readers earn $600 or even more ever work week? Are you one them lucky wage earners?
So tell me Comrade BID, do we then hand a broom to sweep the damn streets to all the others who show up in the hope of receiving a hot 50 cents plate of pancakes?
Will all the Bahamalanders who Loretta's poppycock math is claiming are collecting weekly paychecks for $600 (or even more) please stand up and identify yourselves, so the Tribune photographer can takes your pictures? We does require proof?

Tell me something, if government left more money in the hands of the middle to lower income and stole more form Big Hotel, do you think Big Hotel would shut their doors? No, they wouldn't, but they will make cutbacks for sure. If they tax the small business as much or more, which is what they do NOW, the small business suffers, makes cutbacks, and even SHUTS. Now stop using the poor hungry children as your crutch to support inflated incompetent theiving government. If you see they need help, call Hands for Hunger - they are awesome givers in this country. Don't wait on government to build you up. Hopefully your parents did that.

So you are one who would go to the free kitchen and get a hot meal everyday because it's free, rather than go sweep the streets earn your $5 buy your own grits and can of tuna and make your own breakfast.

Yep...and we wonder why our country is so full of thieves and such...why work when I can take it from someone else for free.

What's all the debate about the "poor". Busy trying to marginalize "red shirts " huh. Re-read what this is introducing , " a payroll tax could be implemented similarly to the National Insurance Board’s contribution system which makes deductions from salaried workers who earn ***$600 per week or more****." That means half if not most will not be paying , and rightly so because there are some stinky rich dual citizens here who have businesses and evaded tax money additionally earning from us.

This is better than vat . It uses a system already implemented. Taking it off a set rate paycheck is much better than depending on a business to supply taxes at whatever they earn.

At least individuals get returns this way, and this could be the dispersement method for the trust fund money from oil revenues that was previously promised to be established. It could also be the method for other things like, withheld returns for failure to show up to court, failure to electronically pay small fines on time. It's a better penalty than bringing in police for every petty crime. Individualize. Thing is government never has taken such a tax from us and so now we are spoiled. Consider yourself an investor.

If all of these comments show the worst of income tax, this is peaches and cream in comparison to Very Aweful Tax.

**http://tax-taxes.knoji.com/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-indirect-taxes/**