Mr. Simms,

We need the PM to make a statement on this issue.
This is of greater import than all the other economic issues we must contend with.
Do you agree that we need to nationalize the web shops in this time of crisis?
Diverting these much needed funds to help our ailing country.
Is it fair to ask the numbers guys, who are already multi millionaires, to give this up, allowing this huge pool of money to now begin to help The Bahamas?

I agree with Porcupine ....... the webshops must be outlawed .......... They are raping the fragile Out Island economies .......... They are closing the mainstream banks ........... They do not put anything of value back into these small communities .............The PM must address this issue like the anti-corruption sweep ....... This insidious webshop cartel must be outlawed

Just hope the tentacles aren't already in the PM's office. They dismissed Paul Major quite quickly, opening a spot for who?

Let's organize the signatures of 100,000 Bahamian demanding Parliment vote on (1) legislation to outlaw numbers including jail time for anyone selling numbers and (2) implementation of a state lottery.

Once the legislation has passed a referendum should occur with 2 simply questions (1) should numbers be outlawed and (2) should there be a state lottery.

This is needed as the PLP did not follow the will of the people in the numbers lottery.

Very well put....just tell me where and when to go to sign.

Same here

just as another anecdote, I was asked to deliver some printed documents to a webshop when I visited Abaco.

It was the first time I entered a webshop--i do not gamble. There were many computers but all were occupied with customers and there was a line of 5 or 6 people before the cashier.

The security guard was concerned and said he would accommodate me as soon as possible, not wanting me to leave, so the reception and customer service were good.

I felt sad tho that on friday, when those people likely were just paid, they were gambling before going home.

I am all for a serious debate and discourse on important social, economic and political issues in our country including gaming, alcoholism, tobacco, employment opportunities, access to capital, a sense of entitlement, equality of opportunity, racial and economic discrimination, the rule of law, entrepreneurial spirits, different standards for different people, "thiefing", lackadaisical work ethics, productivity, corporate irresponsibility, political, public & corporate corruption, sweet-hearting, the role of government in society, the role of citizens in society, the role of the Church in society and the role of foreign commercial banks in our society just to name a few. Maybe only one of the above has resulted in the decimation of the Family Islands but I seriously doubt it. Mr. Simms whilst your observation can be described as anecdotal at best, it is far from a serious analysis or observation of the causes for the economic woes and social issues of the Family Islands or anywhere in the Bahamas for that matter. In fact, it is my understanding that Asue Draw has been bankrupt and out of the gaming business for over a year so even your basic facts are inaccurate. These issues deserve a debate, but your comments amount to nothing short of carnival barking and does a disservice to the serious issues facing this country. You are the Chamber of Commerce, begin to think like it.

Exactly, where is the plan for enhancing the economic and employment activity and opportunities on these Family Islands. You are quoted above as saying "there's not too much activity other than to go fishing, drinking, and gambling is the next pastime." So if there are no jobs on these Family islands, exactly what do you want these people to do? Do you think there may be some relationship between their behavior and the lack of employment and other economic opportunities? And, why are we giving these foreign commercial banks such a pass. Based on your logic, faulty as it is, the money the foreign commercial banks take out of the Family Islands do not come to Nassau, it goes to Canada. In fact the money they take out of Nassau goes to Canada.

Gambling, a self-imposed tax on the earnings of those too uneducated to understand simple mathematics.

Web shops and churches, the only businesses you can make money with in our modern post-corrupt Christie Bahamas.

JohnDoe, JohnDoe, JohnDoe,

Let's begin with your strong statement, "You are the Chamber of Commerce, begin to think like it."
How foolish! Firstly, Mr. Simms is a human being. He does not forfeit his right to speak the truth just because he also works for the Chamber of Commerce. When you begin to think like an organization, you end up like, well, like you.
Think about that one statement of yours alone. "begin to think like it"? Wow.
Secondly, as far as I can see, he has hit it right on the button in truthfulness.
Yes, all of your other social ills need attention. But, didn't the people already speak on this issue, John? Yes, we did.
Your claim to want a serious debate is nothing but a sham. Your mind is made up. Every time someone says we need to study it more, we need to "have a serious debate" I see this as more nonsense to obscure the real issues.
JohnDoe, Gambling is at epidemic proportions in The Bahamas. Can you not honestly not see this? JohnDoe, can you really not see this?
It is a fact that these web shops are sucking the lifeblood from our small Family Islands. There is no dispute about this in mentally and intellectually capable people. NONE.
Your next statement, "So, if there are no jobs on these Family Islands, what do you want these people to do? Are you f---ing serious?
There are crawfish, sponge, conch, finfish, trees, bush medicine, mangoes, dilly, soursop, peas, and a multitude of abundant resources for eating and selling. Firstly, we need to have some kind of encouragement from our government, even if not money. Do you know how many people on my small Family Island have applied for crown land? Do you know how many people have gotten any? None.
We need to quit making excuses. There are many things that we as Bahamians could do to improve our lot. Yet, we hold our hand out and say "gimme a job".
JohnDoe, we have a democracy. The people said we do not want the web shops.
What is your thoughtful objection to them being nationalized next week?
Don't criticize others for their "faulty logic" when yours leaves so much to be desired.
Yes JohnDoe, there is much that needs to be done in this country.
If the web shops disappeared tomorrow, it would be an unarguable first step in moving us forward both economically and socially.
Your comments truly disappoint me.

100% true ....... Porcupine, you are 100% right

A time honored debate trick is ad hominem attacks to obfuscate a debate of the issues especially when facts are not strong. In your rambling diatribe you have essentially confirmed my position when I asked, “where is the plan to enhance to economic activity and employment opportunities on the Family Islands”. I asked Mr. Simms a few simple questions as a representative of the Chamber of Commerce. If he was speaking in his personal capacity, then he should have said so but if you are representing the Chamber then anecdotal statements of personal beliefs should not be passed on as established fact especially when other objective and basic facts stated are also inaccurate.

Now, with respect to the substance I too voted no in the gambling opinion poll so do not tell me about having my mind made up. The fact is though, that the machinations of the opinion poll are a totally different discussion from the one above. My point is simply that to present as fact that which are obvious anecdotal personal beliefs and then to spew these over-simplistic solutions without a full understanding of the problem is less than ideal. Everybody that gambles is not an addict and everyone who is an addict of one thing or another is not a gambler. So for someone to say that the state of the Family Islands is what it is because of gambling is both superficial and unsupported by even a cursory economic analysis. The Family Island social and economic issues transcend such shallow attempts at carnival barking.

Every civilized society is tied together by a voluntary social contract. The three bedrock principles of that contract are freedom of choice, personal responsibility and the rule of law. In the context of that contract, different social issues inevitable arise as societal participants interact with each other. Indirect societal issues, positive and negative, also arise that are a consequence of the direct interactions of the participants in society. It is the indirect negative consequences, or the negative externalities that is often referred to when we speak of social ills from legal behavior that would otherwise be characterized as based on Freedom of Choice. So the fundamental question is how should a society deal with these negative externalities emanating from gaming and other legal social behavior?

Fully concur Porcupine, but you're wasting your time here......JohnDoe's mind is so foolishly closed on the subject of the web shops that he (or she) would rather try argue that most fish can't swim!

I agree . Also there was a murder in Abaco a few years ago the winner sent someone to pick up his winnings and , someone went to the guys house and murdered him for the money and also recently there was a man shot outside one of the gaming houses, a man was exiting one of the houses with his winnings and a armed robber robbed him my point is this is bringing violent crimes to little peaceful islands.

Wasn't a female webshop manager found murdered apparently for webshop money a few months ago? A gentleman was also killed in Nassau near the headquarters by the bridge while delivering the cash drop off. That said, other establishments also get robbed, poor Super Value, and no one wants to eliminate food stores...so I'm not sure that webshop scumminess is the cause of people seeking easy money.

I don't know what the solution is to these webshops, I remember my Grammy buying numbers back in the 70's. So outlawing it doesn't seem to be a solution. Why was the horse race track closed? Are we seeing the same predictable issues? If we had a national lottery would the same scummy people be in charge? How would corruption and fixing be eliminated? Would we have the same addiction problems even with a national lottery. There are so many questions to get to a real solution...

I say shut them all down and probably introduce a national lottery. The christian council will have an issue with it for sure. Government will have to sit down with the christian council,civic and church leaders and see if they can come to some amicable agreement for the introduction of a national lottery, advising them of the damning effects of the web shops and the benefits of a national lottery. They need to convince them also that the the monies will go to improving the economy and lives of the people of the Bahamas. The lottery need to be properly regularized and monitored putting stringent rules and laws in place to curve abuse by addicted gamblers.