"From the looks of things, it does not appear so. Therefore, the carnage will continue because we continue to send the message to murderers that they can take the life of others and the state will spare theirs."
This man just likes to make statements that he thinks the masses want to hear. He has certainly done no research on the matter.

Look at the US where they have the death penalty. Then look at Canada and Europe. Then compare their murder rates.

You Pastor Moss are as much as anyone, to blame for all the crime. I have yet to hear what social programs you and the rest of the so called churches are doing to correct the situation.

The death penalty is your way of distracting the public from your own short comings.

Economist, since you seemed to miss my foundational point, I'll restate it:
"To be clear, I do not support the death penalty as a reaction to our high rate of murder (even though I firmly believe that swift and consistent execution of convicted murderers will reduce our high rate of murder). I support the death penalty because it is the only just and fitting punishment for the crime of murder."

You are amazing: You conclude that I and the rest of churches are doing nothing to correct the situation because you have yet to hear what social programs we are doing! When since you became the standard! You don't hear everything! Come on, be reasonable!

I am very disappointed to hear these nonsensical drivel coming from a Pastor whom I had always held in high regards. The Death Penalty being enforced has been proven over and repeatedly to not being a deterrent to murder; and the good Pastor knows this. No wonder we as a country are stuck in this vicious cycle of crime, because those who are expected to take the lead in solving, or at least contributing to a sound solution to some of our country's ills, have nothing more than useless verbiage in their arsenal. They are woefully devoid of any constructive contributions.

CatislandBoy, read my letter. I do not support the death penalty as a deterrent to murder. I support it because it is the fit and proper punishment for murder.

That's not true. This bull crap of 15 years on death row, with appeal after appeal isn't a deterrent. If convicted of murder, and then you were put to death, this crap would stop. Then of course you worry about innocent people being convicted. I believe in the death penalty, but not to be taken lightly. It needs to be used only when you know they are guiltily.

Enforce the Death Penalty!

cedric moss has not fully understood the message taught by Jesus, he is stuck in the old testament's law given to the Jewish people when they were God's chosen people several thousand years ago. If Mr. Moss eats conch or lobster, if Mr. Moss lifts a finger to do any sort of work on a Saturday then he is contravening God's law and God will probably punish him. In the nean time he is best ignored as an ignorant bigot.

Baldbeardedbahamian,

It is interesting that in accusing me of not understanding the message taught by Jesus, I respectfully submit that demonstrate your own biblical illiteracy and ignorance about Scripture in general and what Jesus taught in particular. But you hide behind a pen name, so I guess you're not embarrassed by it. i encourage you to read your bible as a whole and not as a disjointed book. Almighty God is the divine author of all of Scripture, and there is no contradiction between the Old and New Testaments.

What a Rev. roc with doc did say he would pop the scum bags necks. that is also No Games
Dames answer to crime. and the so called holy bible toting ones can find what ever suits them **Strong** in the Bible. The first murder recorded in the bible God did not kill the murderer

Poor black young men necks will be popped and the rich will walk free. Many people have
been executed only to find out later they were innocent. I trust they will give The Rev the
job to pop the necks some for him some for Dames and some for doc.

It would be great if we could have constructive criticism of content and not people.

cedric moss, are you claiming that Jesus supports state sanctioned killing? And just which particular version of the Bible is the correct one? Which of the Apostle's accounts of the sermon on the mount is the true and correct one? They all differ. I am comfortable writing behind a pen name while living in this hypocritical and murderous society that we have created. I am also not a social parasite, whatever I have, I worked long and hard to earn. I do not take up a weekly collection from a congregation that I have told can buy their way into heaven by giving me money. Unlike several questionable pastors that I know of, I have never accepted land given to me by a corrupt government. I have never charged a grieving family yo bury their deceased loved .one. Unlike every church organization, every business that I have managed has paid customs duty on everything imported, and paid business license fees, and VAT and NIB for all employees. You cannot truthfully say the same, can you?

There you go again, baldbeardedbahamian, ignorantly and maliciously broad brushing every pastor and every church, including those you know nothing about! You demonstrate your ignorance and unreasonableness by such unconditional, sweeping statements, and I doubt that you would do so if you were not hiding behind a pen-name. Anyone who has personal shame would not put their name to the things you are saying. They are devoid of evidence and civility.

You also seem not to understand the difference between for profit and non-profit companies, which accounts for how they are treated in terms of the payment or non-payment of business license fees. In the case of VAT and NIB, all churches pay them, and there is no credit. Most businesses in this country do not really pay VAT at the end of the day; they pay VAT and collect VAT and give the net to the government. So if a business pays VAT of $100 and collects VAT of $150, the business pays the $50 difference to the government, and essentially the business paid no VAT; its customers did. VAT is a tax paid on the backs of consumers, and this is why so many business owners love VAT and customs duties hate income tax. Are you one of them?

Also, the owners of for-profit companies can handle their profits however they wish for their personal benefit. If the profits of non-profit companies are handled for the personal benefit of anyone, it is an offence, and such companies will lose their license if caught.

While I agree with you that some pastors live off offerings, I'm not one of them. It is public knowledge to many, many Bahamians that I made my money in the international financial services sector, and I continue to make the overwhelming amount of my income from the international financial services company I founded and in which I continue as a significant minority shareholder. So, when you broad brush pastors and churches and paint them in a negative light, please don't include me. We can disagree, but let's be respectful, civil, and honest.

Pastor Moss ....... kindly suggest to the State to pass a constitutional amendment to make the Bahamian Court of Appeal the final court for ALL criminal matters ....... then we can enforce Article 16 and the Penal Code without having to answer to the Privy Council or Amnesty etc. ..... This is not an emotional matter about Mosaic Law, this is simply a Constitutional matter that can be rectified ...... if the politicians wish to do so and if the people will vote YES

Sheeprunner, I'm not sure we need to do that, and that would be far more complicated than simply amending the constitution in such a way that it ties the Privy Council's hands, and they can't frustrate the carrying out of the death penalty. Attorney Sean McWeeney is on record saying that this can be done. Other lawyers agree with him. I think this is a much easier sell to the Bahamian people, and it takes less work. The government will also fear that the Privy Council might tell them to make alternative arrangements altogether if they want to drop the Privy Council for criminal matters.

How can you "tie the PC hands" when they have the last say???? ........ We thought we had it figured out - and now it is a conundrum ....... Just remove the PC from having jurisdiction over our criminal affairs ...... That is why we are an independent country in the first place (smt)

I hear your frustration, but the Privy Council's hands can be tied so in our Constitution so that capital punishment can be carried out with respect to convicted murderers. But think about what you're saying. You only want to get rid of the Privy Council in criminal cases; what about civil cases? I believe that we need to get rid of the Privy Council, but many Bahamians do not, and that will be a long, hard, divisive fight. But an overwhelming majority of Bahamians believe in the death penalty for convicted murderers, and will overwhelmingly vote to amend the constitution to ensure that it is carried out. After that amendment we can work on the long term project of replacing the Privy Council, and the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) is just a regional version of the Privy Council. The CCJ is also standing as a road block to capital punishment, like so many who believe they are more enlightened than the rest of us who support capital punishment.

As in personal and religious matters, so also in public affairs ....... you cannot serve two masters ....... either God or Man, either Court of Appeal or PC ....... smh

Pastor Moss, I am not trying to get into a argument with you about the Death Penalty, and definitely in no way attempt to impugn your character as a sincere Man of God. I have much respect for you and the work you are doing. However, I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around your statement that Capital Punishment is a "fit and proper punishment for murder". How did you arrive at such conclusion? Who determines this? The Courts? The same courts that have convicted and sentenced innocent men for murders they did not commit?

CatIslandBoy ........ that is a deflection from the issue ....... Capital punishment is a constitutional enshrinement that has been intentionally hi-jacked by the Privy Council (and its local supporters) ....... The USA carries it out on a regular basis ....... and the Law bears no emotion .... We need to fix it asap

I appreciate that. We don't need to argue. We can discuss the issue and even disagree without being disagreeable and disrespectful.

Let me start by saying that I did not always support capital punishment. I came to support capital punishment because I came to understand that it is what Scripture (Old and New Testament) teaches. Those who claim to follow Christ don't have the option of ignoring parts of the Bible they don't like.

In the Bible, as early as in Genesis 9:6, the LORD said: "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.” The execution of this punishment was placed in the hands of the judges and had to be based on at least two witnesses. Therefore, the punishment for murder was never carried out privately; it was done by representatives of the state. The punishment for murder has NEVER been revoked anywhere in The Bible. In the New Testament, in Romans 13:4, we are told that the authorities do not bear the sword in vain. The sword was the method of capital punishment at that time. The Apostle Paul here was clearly affirming and not opposing the State's right to execute wrong doers who committed capital offences.

Again, in Acts 25:10-11, the apostle Paul affirms the death penalty with respect to himself. Here's what he said: "I am standing before Caesar’s tribunal, where I ought to be tried. I have done no wrong to the Jews, as you also very well know. 11 “If, then, I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of those things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar.” Notice that Paul accepts the death penalty...he does not fight it.

We must be careful when we call hanging barbaric. In the Old Testament, capital punishment was carried out by stoning. So let me ask: If you had to choose to die by being stoned to death or hung, which would you choose? I think most people would choose hanging because stoning is far more painful a death to die. So when a person says hanging is barbaric, what is he or she saying to God who commanded people to be stoned?

I hope this helps.

One more thing. Consider Genesis 9:6 again: the LORD said: "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.” Notice that this verse gives the reason for capital punishment: Because the murderer shed the blood of someone made in God's own image. Capital punishment is a vindication of God himself. Fundamentally, it has nothing to do with deterrence.

It is a "constitutional enshrinement" whose time has come and gone. If we are aspiring to become an enlightened society who head is not buried in the out-dated constitutional enshrinements of which you write, we must look at new ways to combat criminality, and effectively punish our criminals - yes, even the murderers. State sanctioned murder as a punishment is neither a deterrent, nor fit and proper punishment.

Well, my friend ........... look at where the "enlightened societies" are today ...... I will surely choose my Bahamian heritage and culture, rather than imposing the "modern" Euro-ideas on our society ........ Our Constitution is here to stay (barring a coup), so we need to ensure that it is working to the satisfaction of the body corporate ................ The Penal Code dictates punishment inclusive of the death penalty ......... That is the Law ........ If our court system was efficient, there would not even be a need to worry about the Privy Council at this time, but "the Murrio Ducilles" know how to hi-jack the court system, create unnecessary delays and cause cases to go beyond statute of limitations etc. ...... hence the backlog dilemma

CatIslandBoy, those "enlightened societies" also believe that a man should use a woman's bathroom if he feels like a woman, and they also believe that anyone who opposes the sexual revolution of sexual confusion is hateful and should be charged for a hate crime. One of them, Canada, even believes that some forms of bestiality are ok, based on a court ruling there some months ago. So, I'm happy to be considered unenlightened.

Calling BS on the Canada comment. You are 110% incorrect.

Canada recognizes same sex couples as being equal under the law to heterosexual couples. This is what the court system ruled in the case of a couple who had been together for 30+ years and dealt with one person's pension.

Don't spread false information that if same sex relationships are legally recognized it will lead to bestiality ... it is fear mongering and not true.

For the record, I am heterosexual BUT I respect my fellow man and woman!

And, yes, while we are at it, but have no sound basis for our viewpoints, let's just deflect and change the topic of discussion. If we can't argue Capital Punishment on its merits, let's throw in sexuality and bestiality....... I guess that will win the argument every time. How can anyone top that?

We are Christian and democratic ....... Bible and Constitution ...... both based on grace, mercy and fairness ........ the latter calls for JUSTICE ..... courts & punishment give JUSTICE ........ NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE ...... John 3:16 ..........
We can use all kinds of semantics but our country must stand on its principles

Some fair points in your reply cedric moss. also some misinformation. vat is a tax that is charged on the value that a business adds to the products or services that it sells or provides. Therefore businesses certainly are taxed. Of course the consumer ultimately pays for this expense, all expenses of any business are always passed on to the consumer. I know a few dozen business owners and I do not think that anyone of them is happy paying vat, mostly because of the time and expense to maintain and administer the records necessary to do this every 3 months.
Coming back to state sanctioned executions, those who support such killing should be the ones who put the noose around the convicted man or woman's neck. In this way they will answerable to God if the courts have made a mistake and convicted the wrong man. I used to employ the last man who was killed in a state sponsored execution, he had a low IQ but I never thought he was a killer, I suspect his confession was beaten out of him and I think there is a possibility that he was innocent of the crime for which we killed him. You night find it instructive to research the last hanging in England in 1955 and note how and why it led that country to anolish the death penalty in all cases except high treason.

Pastor, your scriptural basis for supporting and encouraging the Death Penalty is a little weak when compared to other scriptures. Murder was not the only crime for which state execution was commanded by God. Adultery (Leviticus 20:10/Deut.22:22); False Prophecy (Deut.18:20); Disobedience to Parents (Deut.21:18-21); Sabbath Labour (Exodus 31:14); and the list goes on. So, to surmise that God commanded the Death Penalty only for Murder is a little disingenuous.

Throughout His teachings, and exemplified in His life and death, Jesus promoted the concept of love as the fulfilment of the law. He rejected the old testament law of societal revenge, and actually interrupted a capital punishment (John 8:7-9).

Since you invoked the apostle Paul, I must admit that I don't know what was going through his mind when he stood accused, however I do know that in other writings he distinctly warned us against taking revenge for evil done (Romans 12:17-21). The apostle Peter also encouraged us not to repay evil with evil (1 Peter 3:9).

There is something very wrong when present-day Servants of God are expending their energies promoting state-sponsored solutions to sin, when clearly Jesus' death and resurrection championed a "new way". Instead of popping necks, we should be saving souls.

Let's stop the knee-jerk reaction to rising crime, and put our heads together and come up with some real solutions.