Precedent has been set ........ the liberal world is watching ........ There will be 50,000 such SC cases soon ........ Our court system will face another legal status conundrum with this case.

Ridiculous precedent. Hopefully The Tribune will publish copies of the original documents indicating time and place of birth as well as the application for citizenship in this country. These people in the photograph do realize they are in The Bahamas?

This is a precedent setting case. The Law is the Law. Hopefully there are not many others in Haiti who were born here with the same issue and can prove it !

I wonder how many 'documents' recently got burned in the slum fires.

This is not the law. The Bahamas needs to amend its laws to reflect birthright citizenship, and get rid of the entitlement window. This is simply the imposing the will of the few and does not reflect what the average Bahamian wants.

YOU FORGOT THE APPEAL PROCESS. . .THIS ONE IS GOING TO THE PC!

Ma Comrades you have be happy for Jean Rony, when the littleness red state brought his humble world crashing down around him whilst going about his business buy single cigarette. Maybe the PM and his Imperial cabinet will show up at the airport to offer their apology... and hand him his citizenship and cheque $1 million.
Jean Rony, you did stand up to the red state and I and thousands salute you.
We all ready welcome you back Home, my Comrade cause the Judge feels same lots us that "having regard to the exceptional circumstances of this case – where Jean Rony has produced Bahamalander birth certificate and the facts show he has never left the Bahamaland prior to his deportation/expulsion and he was never charged with any offence under the Immigration Act and never taken before any court and no recommendation for deportation or deportation order was made in reference to him. I find that the following orders are necessary to provide appropriate relief and secure the applicant’s rights."
Amen!

Does Jean Rony really possess REAL Bahamian documents?????? ....... This is such a slippery slope because JP affidavits are almost worthless now ....... what use is a birth certificate??? ....... and did he apply for Bahamian citizenship at his 18th birthday for citizenship?????? ......... Are there records in our RegGen Dept. or Dept. of Immigration that prove this???????? ......... He is 35 with NO other claim to Bahamian citizenship than "he was born here". ........ Is this where we are now??????? This sounds like DeathPenalty2.0 all over again!!!!!!

Most government offices want several forms of ID because the government knows full well that there are so many fake Bahamian passports, voters cards and NIB cards that none are to be trusted on their own - let alone a printed birth certificate - absolutely useless document now. It is becoming almost impossible to prove that any of us are true Bahamians! This is very, very sad.

He may not even be who he says he is. It still puzzles me that the Haitian Embassy had
no record of him being deported. and the Drama King was able to find him when he was
good and ready. But I am not surprised by the ruling of the Judge. it is just the way it is.

Exactly my point ........ Who is to prove that this is who he says he is????
These people are living holograms who need to have DNA proof of their true lineage and parents etc. ....... We are in deep shit if we are taking their "records" as proof of identity ..... These people have blind-sided us big time!!!

The average Bahamian usually only have a driver's license on them, how would they prove who they are if approach by the immigration? It should be due process when arresting people, because anyone with high cheek bone can get detain and deported.

Unless there is an Appeal the Judge ruling must be followed or unless we have Officials like those in the Ryan case decades ago willing to go to jail then Jean Rony is to be welcomed and given legal status despite not having applied at 18 years old. This is a historic defining.

This is DANGEROUS!!!!!!

In this case THE LAW IS AN ARSE!!!

The Law is the Law. The arses are the ones who passed the Law. Since Parliament passes laws in your name, the arse is you. And me.

The issue here is interpretation of the law which is subjective. The real issue is whether or not ILLEGAL immigrant parents having a child born in the country has the same rights and entitlements as a person born to parents in the country LEGALLY under the constitution. It assumes the right to apply for citizenship is to those born legally! So the obvious answer is NO. But that is not what the learned judge considered.

I am not happy with this ruling

And that is supposed to mean something?

Thank God we still have Judges who apply the LAW as it stands, otherwise there would be no difference between the Bahamas and Haiti.

If you do not like the ruling, change the law. You know who your MP is. Get a pen and paper and write him a letter.

It is not the law that would have to be changed but the Constitution with the usual referendum.

But the court interpreted the Constitution by using cases from other Common Law jurisdictions and Commonwealth countries.

This would never have occurred if we Bahamians had stopped his parents before they got to The Bahamas or followed the law and deported them as soon as they arrived.

We are slack people living in a slack country and now we are paying the price. If he was born here, legally or not, he has rights.

Those fellows are raising their fist. They will soon be raising their flags.

This is certainly precedent setting. With this ruling, combined with recent comments from the attorney general, and the minister of immigration, despite what the law says, the de facto result is persons born in the Bahamas ( if they have made application for citizenship or not), will not be deported and will be granted some sort of status. It certainly seems the humane way forward, our laws should be amended to reflect this new reality.

Law or Constitution?

...prepare for a massive flotilla of the pregnant and uneducated. Unfortunately the liberal minded care not for the preservation of this nations culture.

Haitians would've came with or without this ruling, and don't get full of yourself because we have a lot of uneducated Bahamians. Besides, I learn something while attending school in Miami a few decades ago; a lot of Haitians would ask me what school I went to in the Bahamas and I was wondering why they keep asking me that. I found out that most of them went to the same primary school in the Bahamas. I said all of that to make the point that the Bahamas is really just a stopping ground to get the USA, so Bahamians don't get full of yourself. I understand that we cannot open up our borders because potentially the Bahamas would have the same problems that Haiti has with over population but the problem can be fix without negativity being thrown at the Haitians.

This ruling is despicable. This man was rightfully deported because he did not apply for status within the legal time frame. No court or judge should be allowed legally enforce something that is illegal. Even to uphold the look of upholding the law, only the immigration board or the minister should have the power to grant or demand status for this man at this point. If justices don't respect the law, how can we expect illegals to?

can i have this kind of judge too when i don't bother to renew my drivers license or passport? you know i don't want to bother bathing, getting dressed, waiting in that kind of heat or rain, waste my lunch hour and more from work only to be passed around slow government workers...

One has to wonder whether the ones with the short wigs make payments to the ones with the long wigs!

Ma Comrades, I know the Haitian government under Papa Doc Duvalier sold for his own bank account's benefit - poorer Haitians under contract to the Dominicans.... should ask King's Counsel Freddy, if he knows of any cases or poorer Haitians being sold to the Bahamaland, under contract? I wonder what its like be in Haiti's middle class? Few Bahamalanders know much about Haiti. What does it take Haitian to move on up to the middle class from the poor class?

All this means is the government should quickly amend the law so as to reverse the precedent set in this case.

The general consensus I'm getting from the public is that - Bahamians, given the threat of our sovereignty as a result of illegal immigration, do not agree to birthright citizenship.

When you take into consideration the state of our porous borders and lack of national security, it is important that law spells out that requirements for citizenship go beyond a safe delivery... notwithstanding the fact that first world countries who have the means and resources can accommodate such a law.

Failure to do so means two things in the immediate future:

The financial burden is on the immigration department and by extension the government to repatriate not only Rony but any number of nationals that may fall within the same circumstances.

Secondly, it would mean that the government would almost immediately have to ramp up national security measures at our borders to ensure that this precedent does not encourage other nationals to come here and have babies knowing that even if they do not apply through the proper channels at 18 - like Rony - their offspring will still be entitled to Bahamian Citizenship.

Act now Hubert.. Stand up like a man...!

Give us the referendum so that we can amend the constitution to reflect the needs of 20th century policy!

Amen BAHAMASFORBAHAMIANS!! (21st?) Snap Referendum!

it is my hope that the Immigration Department will continue to do their jobs. and not lose
interest in this most important work.

What a judge says or rules in The Bahamas is almost meaningless. Look at that illegally operating business on Balmoral Island (the one across from Sandals).

Even if we brought dear jean here to nassau, gave him a bahamian passport, put him in a mansion with a room full of cash and gave him all the chicken wings he can eat in new providence, my guess is he would still find a way to end up as he did before all this saga started.

THE JUDGE ONLY SAYS TO GIVE STATUS TO WORK. . .THE QUESTION OF CITIZENSHIP IS NOT "TOUCHED". . .THAT WILL BE OUR LEGAL APPEAL ROPE TO HANG THIS JUDGE'S RULING WITH. . .HE RULED FROM THE ASSUMPTION OF MR JEAN BEING A BAHAMIAN CITIZEN. . .WHICH OUR CONSTITUTION SAYS HE IS NOT!!

The responses displayed here tells me one thing. We don't care what benefit the constitution provides as long as it doesn't provides it to Haitians. The Animal Farm motto rings out loud and clear, All animals are created equal but some animals are more equal than others. At least now we can identify with why the Afrikaners of South Africa didn't want blacks to be treated the same way as whites or why the former slaves owners didn't want blacks to vote. The way you feel now is the way they felt back then.

true this.

What's clear is your points are intentionally irrelevant to this situation, because even you know this justice enforced something unconstitional.

The fact here is The constitution does not recognize birthright citizenship to the children born to foreign parents, not just Haitians. This individual, the justice, overruled the constitution and is attempting to enforce birthright citizenship. This is as laughable as ruling on the return of illegal drugs between dealers. He is ordering the immigration department to break the law and he should be ignored. This is a matter for immigration officials or the minister himself.

Give it a rest. You all keep coming with these victim analogies. Has your community ever considered that your actions are the root cause of these issues. I bet not. Have you ever heard the one about the uninvited, ungrateful, constantly complaining guests? If not, just ask anyone how they feel about such people.

Yes. . .you are right. . .key word is Haitians. . .our constitution only protects our people. . .BAHAMIANS. . no matter their decent. . .AND ALL WHO WE INVITE INTO OUR NATION. . .AGAIN NO MATTER THEIR DECENT! Is it not that same way in the Republic of Haiti? Its is like a pilot taking off towards a destination without a sanctioned flight plan. . . according to international aviation law that plane does not exist. . .you are not making sense in your reasoning. . .

No, the Constitution protects All who are in this country.

They can certainly determine if a 20 or 35 year old can still apply for citizenship after his legal window has ended. Responsibilities like this are what I believe Minnis was referring to in creating an immigration committee.

I agree Deddie and the same thought comes to mind when reading any article concerning immigration back home.

While the constitution does not make way for automatic citizen to anyone born in the Bahamas, the law does states that upon turning 18 the individual has a right to apply for status in our country and we all know how that goes. Many are left states for years while waiting for citizenship to be approved. 2018 we are still in the debating who is allowed citizenship and who is not! There needs to be some reform in our immigration system, any application that's more than 5 years old needs to be reviewed. They need either grant or deny those persons right to remain. If a person is born on Bahamian soil they must be a valid reason for denying them status!

Glad he'll be coming home. It's clear to me he's Bahamian. I looked at him, read his story and just imagined this could be one of my classmates that I joked around with in school and then one day someone hooked him up and shipped him off to a place where he knew no one.

Fix this now. We can't take a hundred thousand more illegal migrants And we can't allow more people to fall into this space. Change the law now. Children born to LEGAL immigrants have a right to apply.

What are you not getting???? ........ He was born here, 35 years ago, to illegals and he did not apply for papers at age 18.... ........ How is he eligible to be a Bahamian now ????? .......Show me that Article in my Constitution!!!!!!!!

Well I get all that.

It's a tough thing. I want the illegal immigration to stop before we sink under the weight of it and the entire country turns into a slum with a million roadside fruit vendors and are roads are filled with people who buy their licenses. BUT I can't agree to throw away a man who grew up as Bahamian. He in that land, he don't know nobody, he can't speak the language, he can't work...It's easy when you remove empathy from the equation.

Right on

That Bahaitian, the one called Jean Rony, ............
No longer need be so lonely, ............... .......
He should be back within the week, ,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,
, To a country whose language he speak. ..... .. ...
Its also the country where he was born, ........... ... ..
From home and family he was torn, .. .... .... .
Now he can buy that cigarette, ........ .. ... .
Without the worry or the fret.

Did all the Chinese from Bah mar go back home w/o incident...none climing tobe born in the Bahamas ay..ok

If I read this right...... The Judge says that he was not charged with anything or taken before the court...well bring him back to the Bahamas as ordered ...see if his papers are valid..and if they are valid he gets to stay in our Country..... If his papers are not valid...well that's where the law steps in. The Government will act guickly on this one.... Mr Smith we lost all of our papers in the fire in the mud in Abaco......Get us straight. What you think Mr Tal?

That will become the perfect excuse for Creole Fred to continue this legal charade against our State ......... Lost papers

Creole Fred is an Enemy of the State (Bahamas)

That problem can't fly, so stop deflecting. I got my Birth Certificate in a space of 15 minutes last year. So there is a record of everything.

Oh Ma Dear Comrades, asks us what defines a Bahamalander and be prepared get that strange look back bewilderment. Ask, who and what are not Bahamalander - and we'll invite you pull up chair for the beginning lecture in what is not our culture. Take Junkanoo away us and we'd be culturally void... yet majority us haven't attended in 30 plus years. Go figure, hey?Just maybe a little Haitian music, song, dance, creole language and art is just what we need spice up we cultural spirits?

"In my judgement," his written ruling read, "having regard to the exceptional circumstances of this case – where the applicant has produced Bahamian birth certificate and the facts show he has never left the Bahamas prior to his deportation/expulsion and he was never charged with any offence under the Immigration Act and never taken before any court and no recommendation for deportation or deportation order was made in reference to him ...”

All that drivel and yet, conveniently, no mention of the citizenship application or filing window. That is what determines his legal status as a 35 year old man born to illegal immigrants. It is ridiculous that a judge could so blatantly disregard the constitution and set such a dangerous precedent.

The fool judge and Creole Fred need to go and read the Haitian Constitution ....... If you are born to a Haitian, you are Haitian for life!!!!!!! ...... The Haitians are so dumb, that they want to be what they cannot legally become!!!!!!

The HAITIANS ARE NOT DUMB. . .this ruling has finally brought the question of birth-citizenship in the Bahamas to the courts. . .this will "expel" many persons who have been born here and did not apply at 18 to 19 and are still here like Mr. Jean. . .this judge avoided that constitutional requirement like the plague. . .

Mr Tal....can this judge be overruled by another judge?

Yes. . .the case will be taken tot the appeals court. . .then can go to the PC. . . errors in rulings are over-turned all the time!

I am not a big fan of Pindling, but one strong point that he made was that if Bahamians are not prepared to fight for something, then they do not deserve to have it! It is time to start a petition on https://www.change.org/petitions!

How many in this forum would sign if there was a petition that demand that the government bring a referendum to Bahamians to ascertain whether or not the Constitution should remain as is, or to be amended, to make it crystal clear of what the requirements are for granting citizenship? Bahamians must stop pussyfooting around before we lose the lil piece of culture we gat! The government is obviously NOT prepared to deal with this issue unless there is an overwhelming demand by the Bahamian people that they do so. I for one refuse to work hard just to pay taxes to support irresponsible people who wanna have an abundance of children that they cannot support, then DEMAND that the Bahamian people take care of their offspring or grant them citizenship. SPEAK UP BAHAMIANS!

Start the petition! It will have to be worded in the right sort of legalese so that it can serve its purpose, would have to be accepted by Government and not pushed aside by some fancy footwork by the lawyer advocating to change the nationality of this Bahamas.

That quote is often taken out of context!! He was speaking about Majority rule in the house and when black Bahamians were not allowed Downtown or given the opportunity to work in banks or stores down there.

The constitution was also written to keep the Brits out. When Pindling and his group went to London to inform the Crown that the Bahamas was moving forward with Independence, it was put on the table to grant Britis already living in The Bahamas automatic citizenship and the same for Bahamians living in Britain. He said NO they would have to apply, at which time many were denied and sent packing, even ones married to Bahamian women.

Emac you are right Bahamians have to be willing to fight for something but this ruling should be further down the list of things Bahamians should fight for, FOI act, Corruption in Government, rights to our natural resources and many more should come before this ruling. Those things are holding everyday Bahamian down more than one or two Haitians that didn't apply for his citizenship in the allotted time frame.

Our “D” average is on display. Read people! The judge never said, he must be given citizenship but legal status. There is a difference.

Obviously YOU are the product of the "D" average syndrome, because you fail to see why the majority here are speaking out. Or perhaps you are salty because of your warped sense of allegiance to the Haitian community. The issue here is NOT what the judge ordered-I am sure everyone here is aware of the fact that judge did not order that this man be given citizenship. But we know that this will be the next step. This man is the product of illegal parents, who obviously did not see the need to present proper documents so that he could become legal. NO, his mother spat him out, like the majority of them do and then left him to be a burden of society. But to cut a long story short, a lot of this mumbo jumbo would be a thing of the past if the loophole was closed that allows the many Haitian woman to spit out children like crabs spawn on the beaches. Don't get mad, get glad!

HE IS NOT ENTITLED NOR DOES HE DESERVE IT! THE JUDGE IS WRONG!

Am I missing something here? Is his only form of ID a photo-less birth certificate and he is entitled to Bahamian status? Wow!!. I have an account in a local Bank and each time I withdraw money, I need a valid Govt issued photo ID. I used to cash cheques at a Bank out west but had no account and for three years, when I get to the Teller, I was addressed by my name and we would exchange courtesies. A minute later , the teller would say ID and reach his / her hand out to receive it.
I just hope the Government's attorney launches an appeal ,

You could find a lot people throughout the Islands that don't even have that much on them (birth certificates)

The Judge ruled correctly in this case. It was the Hon. QC has been saying all along. Immigration does not have the authority to round up a suspected illegal person and ship him/her out of the country without bringing that individual before the Courts. Only the Court of law can order a deportation. If all of you non-lawyers would remove your emotional lenses when it comes to the Haitian community, you will see that this is a no-brainer.

Thank you for your sensible post amongst all these other distasteful and sometimes racist ones. I can only hope that the posters are simply drunk and would regret their posts upon sober reflection.

Then I put it to you that you need to go and read the ruling! Do you really think that we are here rowing because of what you just said? We know that is the case. . .now I suggest that you go and read the ruling. . .I put it to you that you have no clue of what that ruling says. I bet you don see that now poor illegals will be sent to jail first. . .then deported. . .according to that same law! How humane do you think putting them poor folks into fox hill is?

The Law is the Law! Period. If you think that breaking it is more humane than applying it, then you should encourage the Legislators to change it.

You're honestly saying the law was applied here? Clearly you're the one speaking from emotion. Immigration officers have the right to question or detain anyone they suspect of being illegal. "Suspect" being up to their discretion. He should have been taken to court but not doing so is not grounds to provide a known illegal, with unverifiable documents, with status and apply laws not intended for illegals. At most, this justice should have ruled this matter be taken to court, with him present or not. Or that this was now a matter for the immigration minister.

The minister cannot use no discretion now. . .he must follow the judge ruling. . .bring the man back. . .charge him. . .take him to court. . .he goes to jail and then deported. That's the ruling outline. . .

"Justice Hilton furthered that Mr Jean-Charles, upon making an application, be issued legal status no later than 60 days after his return."

What do you suppose "legal status" means? Could it mean that his status must be declared either legal or illegal within 60 days??????

Now we are using our minds for possible outcomes to the ruling. . . judges can't make or amend laws. . .what if he is deported for committing a crime before etc. Legal status is "allowing" him to enter the nation. . .since he is not a Bahamian! Immigration policies are not dictated by the court. . .

Exactly, There are some Bahamians that has features that are similar to the so call Haitian features with high cheek bones. So they so emotionally glued to this case that they don't understand that they could be question and apprehended just like this guy. The only papers you might have is a passport and a drivers license because there is nothing such as a citizenship papers if you are a citizen and everyone doesn't have a passport, so you could very well be stuck in a detention center for sometime. He more than likely sound like and everyday Bahamian so they discriminate base on features and last name.

He might be using someone else's documents. Why didn't his family produce these documents during his prolonged st? I remember a young Haitian boy telling me over 20 years ago that his father would carry his and his siblings passports when he traveled to Haiti and bring back youngsters who looked like them. Imagine how many people did similar things since we don't do biometric checks like the United States?

And how do we know that you are not here illegally, maybe you have a fake birth certificate, maybe everyone of us has fake papers. Who is to deceide, you and me or a court of law?

The judgement is not as precedent setting as many of you may think. What do you suppose happens when a 19 year old and older applies for citizenship. Guess what, he or she receives it as though they were eighteen. The precedent has been set from July 11, 1992. In case you are wondering the significance of that date. It is 19 years after independence when the government first had to make a decision on what to do with persons who applied after the statutory time period. That is the date that Emac and others should have made their ignorance known.

You're showing your ignorance. No precedent was established then, it was an emotional decision that contradicted the constitution. The justice's ruling did not reference such a precedent either because it's weak. Furthermore, this man whom the judge referred to as "applicant" has never applied for status. Coddling and making him out to be a victim, is just plain wrong and sends an unfortunate message to your community that will keep entitled feeling illegals coming in droves.

I though that you don't know what the hell you are saying. . .the constitution says that NO LAW IS ABOVE THE CONSTITUTION. . .NO COURT CASE CAN CHANGE THAT FACT. . .any law or ruling of any court that makes a ruling contrary to the constitution is declared void!! This ruling is clearly anti-constitutional. . .it cannot stand!

I guess you miss the part that says, "Parliament may make provision".

Parliament can only make previsions where the constitution says it can. . .for non-enshrined laws. . .enshrined laws can only be done by the referendum of the people! Who can be a citizen is enshrined and cannot be changed by the parliament. So no matter which way changes are made, those new changes then become the supreme law and no other law of institution shall be above it!

Bingo Deddie. It's up to the discretion of Parliament, not a Justice and it is not a guarantee of anything. This is what happened in the so called "precedent" you mentioned in 1992.

No Parliament can't decide on an enshrined provision like citizenship.

Read Ma Comrade Justice Gregory's powerful words and this could have been avoided had the red state followed the court's order to produce Jean Rony, in the physical before the court. He let the red state off lightly rather than summon the AG and Immigration Minister before the court to be imprisoned for contempt court.... not that lil lockin up wouldn't straighten out the clogged thinking the two men's... but if the two men's continue sin against the court.... they'd better start ducking from court's bailiffs.
Amen!

And, this will be appealed to the Privy Counsel in London!

Bahamians are asleep while the Haitian diaspora is taking over!
Someone please tell me where I can go to sign up for free land and house!

https://www.facebook.com/Culmer.Johnson…

A rather enlightening thread of comments.
Bahamians seem to prefer to hire Haitians over Bahamians. Wonder why.
With all the problems we have here, not caused by Haitians, our energy is focused on.........
Perhaps, the reason we have so many social problems here is not just the immigrants.
Perhaps, we have allowed our ability to think as humans, Christians and educated people to languish.
All indications are that the Bahamian team has lost.
From the top to the bottom.
What we read here is what one would expect from the losing side.

The losing side? This is not a game. There is a valid concern amongst Bahamians that the law was applied in a way that contradicts the constititution. No one suggested that illegal immigrants are the source of all problems in the Bahamas. However, it is a major problem and one that needs to be fixed with laws not christianity and emotions. That is how we got in this mess.

This a great way to start a civil war!

Well the Haitian/Haitian Bahamians have the upper hand in that as well. Bahamians will be looking for conch shells while the Haitians are swinging machetes.

So keep paying that $150 fee every year.

Where is the HAITIAN GOVERNMENT? as this is now past the local Haitian Embassy not speaking about this on a person placed on their Soverereign recognized territory and is now ordered by another Sovereign nation to be removed from within their sovereogn terrotory??
Question now is how can Jean Romy leave the internationally recognized country of Haiti?? Bahamian visa? How does he get a visa wothout travel documents? How does he get travel documents after 18 years old? What are his travel documents to leave Haiti a sovereign nation? Can one nation just drop off persons into another country by plane?? Haitian govt??UN?? Amnesty Int?? Curiousiser and curiousier.

We are assuming that Jean Rony does not have a Haitian passport - that he is entitled to at his birth .......... He is by birth a Haitian.

And who is to say that Jean Rony NEVER went to Haiti???? ...... Who checks those sailboats that travel to and fro between Haiti and Nassau????? Noone!!!

Ok ......... So can they pick them up ...... take them to the Detention Centre first ......... and then demand their papers????? ....... No papers = deportation.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . .Immigration approach anybody they suspect to be here illegally. . .the key is suspect. . .we all know where the illegals normally work. . .and who normally employ them. . .it is child play really! Bahamians cannot gamble in casinos in their own nation and tourists can. . .government has a constitutional right to discriminate to protect the nation. . .if you don't believe me. . .go in one casino and let them see you playing the tables. . .even though it is legal for tourist!

Hahahahahahahahaha
Immigration possibly ALSO DOES NOT approach anybody they suspect to be here illegally......hence the reason no employer charged wid employing illegals, or anyone caught sheltering them, also shantytowns growing, also.....anyone ever charged wid forged documents??....