Very succinct summing up, Paco. Kudos to you. I had the utmost respect for private vets in this country prior to this fiasco, as I do know what they are up against what with so many people thinking motor oil, sea water, and bush medicine will cure all; never mind the multitudes who do not even attempt bush medicine but just allow their pets to suffer and die horrible deaths without a second thought. I just do not understand why the VMAB would obstruct anything meant to educate and mitigate animal suffering. I find it incredulous that all local vets are ok with this position. I am sure there are some that are embarrassed and not supportive but obviously if there are, their voices are not being counted. If they can't donate their time, God knows, we would all understand that, given our current economic climate. But to hold hostage animal welfare groups who bust their asses day in and day out already, to insist they raise even more money to pay them more money to do fewer sterilizations? Not to mention reneging on their word from months ago at this late date. Not to mention turning down FREE help. It is beyond any normal person's comprehension. That takes the cake and whether it's pride or greed or both, either is just plain immoral and wrong.
And that is exactly one of the things so wrong in this country when God's creatures are scorned and reviled in this way. This is the absolute reason why so many are born and neglected to live a life of suffering.
There are a myriad of human agencies - both governmental and private - meant to take care of human issues - you should take up that failure to do so properly with those agencies. These are a handful of animal welfare agencies none of which receive a penny of government support trying to deal with tens of thousands of suffering animals. If you can't understand that or find some compassion in your heart for those animals, you should probably just stay off this thread. Anyone who has no compassion or concern for suffering animals should still be aware that our attitude towards and treatment of helpless animals speaks volumes about us as a society. There is a proven link between cruelty to animals and violence to humans. So while this may on the surface seem to be only an animal issue, it is also a human one on many levels, from health to crime concerns. Which very few people seem to understand or care about and no wonder this country has become so violent. No offense but really.
Beating people over the head with derogatory remarks is not furthering your cause or position, and is not going to give anyone a warm fuzzy feeling about local vets. Is it not clear to you yet that the majority of people are disgusted and ashamed and this is not going to help anyone's private practice? The very people who are your bread and butter are the ones who are the angriest about this!
Then why all the fuss over this $50 if it is not earning anyone any money?!!! That is the elephant in the room that has not been addressed. If animal welfare orgs provided the supplies, would the local vets donate their time and skills for free, as they say they are doing by providing supplies at $50 per. It seems such a simple question; how come no answers yet?
And IF animal welfare groups did find themselves able to raise $50 per stray and indigent owned pet; where then does the VMAB expect them to find the funds for all the other costs such as food for traps, flea and tick treatments, vaccines, dewormers, gas for vehicles, and all the other intangibles which add up when doing a clinic, or even when picking up one pet at a time for s/n. A normal field clinic with volunteer vets and techs costs $35-50 per pet for everything including all those non-surgery items. So now the surgery cost alone has been jacked up to $50 each PLUS all the rest? impossible and unfair to expect animal welfare groups to find all this extra money. When there is a less expensive alternative with volunteer help which consists of people using their vacation time and spending considerable funds to get here and stay here simply to help...There is simply no way to justify this or persuade the animal loving public that the VMAB is justified in this action. They are also alienating their best private paying clients, which is really sad.
Because doing 700 surgeries a year has obviously not solved the problem; although doing that many is great, it's a band-aid to this massive problem and this problem grows on a daily basis as more puppies and kittens are born daily into lives of misery and suffering. No one is suggesting that foreigners be allowed to come in for the next hundred years. The idea is to get some high volume s/n vets in here for a week or two at a time, as often as necessary, to target and hit hard the biggest problem areas. There are some vets for whom this is their specialty. Why would we turn away vets who can do 50-100 surgeries in one day - are there any high volume s/n specialists in the Bahamas? If not it's ok! Most private vets even in the U.S. are not high volume s/n vets. These vets coming in are not private vets looking for a relaxing vacation on the beach. They are vets who have honed their skills in s/n and want to give back to suffering animals everywhere. Why in the world would we turn this down, it defies explanation. The point is to do as many surgeries possible in the shortest time frame possible in the worst areas - it's called targeted s/n and it is the only thing that will get a handle on this problem. After which time, the idea is that the local private vets will do the maintenance s/n that needs to be done all along as of course more dogs are imported, bred etc. And some will inevitably be missed or unable to be done even during the most intensive MASH clinics. What about continuing education? Why would local vets not want to take advantage of working alongside specialists in these efforts? Does the VMAB require continuing education for annual licensing? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity especially for young local vets to learn from seasoned high volume spay neuter vets? What in the world is wrong with that??? It can only help everyone. The day that anyone in any profession, thinks they have nothing left to learn, is probably the day they should retire. We can and should all strive to learn as much as we can from whomever we can about our respective fields and interests. This whole thing is just sad.
"...hence the several animal welfare groups that sponsor these surgeries." That says it all. If struggling animal shelters and rescue groups are paying local vets $50 each, that is not free service provided by local vets. Low cost, yes. Free, NO. Giving back entails giving. Not covering your costs by charging others who also did not contribute to this problem and who incur many additional costs in housing, feeding, transporting etc all these animals to your clinics.
ETJ says...
Very succinct summing up, Paco. Kudos to you. I had the utmost respect for private vets in this country prior to this fiasco, as I do know what they are up against what with so many people thinking motor oil, sea water, and bush medicine will cure all; never mind the multitudes who do not even attempt bush medicine but just allow their pets to suffer and die horrible deaths without a second thought. I just do not understand why the VMAB would obstruct anything meant to educate and mitigate animal suffering. I find it incredulous that all local vets are ok with this position. I am sure there are some that are embarrassed and not supportive but obviously if there are, their voices are not being counted. If they can't donate their time, God knows, we would all understand that, given our current economic climate. But to hold hostage animal welfare groups who bust their asses day in and day out already, to insist they raise even more money to pay them more money to do fewer sterilizations? Not to mention reneging on their word from months ago at this late date. Not to mention turning down FREE help. It is beyond any normal person's comprehension. That takes the cake and whether it's pride or greed or both, either is just plain immoral and wrong.
On It's about animals, not vets
Posted 2 December 2013, 11:29 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
And that is exactly one of the things so wrong in this country when God's creatures are scorned and reviled in this way. This is the absolute reason why so many are born and neglected to live a life of suffering.
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 1 December 2013, 12:01 a.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
Shameful.
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 30 November 2013, 11:57 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
There are a myriad of human agencies - both governmental and private - meant to take care of human issues - you should take up that failure to do so properly with those agencies. These are a handful of animal welfare agencies none of which receive a penny of government support trying to deal with tens of thousands of suffering animals. If you can't understand that or find some compassion in your heart for those animals, you should probably just stay off this thread. Anyone who has no compassion or concern for suffering animals should still be aware that our attitude towards and treatment of helpless animals speaks volumes about us as a society. There is a proven link between cruelty to animals and violence to humans. So while this may on the surface seem to be only an animal issue, it is also a human one on many levels, from health to crime concerns. Which very few people seem to understand or care about and no wonder this country has become so violent. No offense but really.
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 30 November 2013, 11:52 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
Beating people over the head with derogatory remarks is not furthering your cause or position, and is not going to give anyone a warm fuzzy feeling about local vets. Is it not clear to you yet that the majority of people are disgusted and ashamed and this is not going to help anyone's private practice? The very people who are your bread and butter are the ones who are the angriest about this!
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 30 November 2013, 11:43 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
Then why all the fuss over this $50 if it is not earning anyone any money?!!! That is the elephant in the room that has not been addressed. If animal welfare orgs provided the supplies, would the local vets donate their time and skills for free, as they say they are doing by providing supplies at $50 per. It seems such a simple question; how come no answers yet?
And IF animal welfare groups did find themselves able to raise $50 per stray and indigent owned pet; where then does the VMAB expect them to find the funds for all the other costs such as food for traps, flea and tick treatments, vaccines, dewormers, gas for vehicles, and all the other intangibles which add up when doing a clinic, or even when picking up one pet at a time for s/n. A normal field clinic with volunteer vets and techs costs $35-50 per pet for everything including all those non-surgery items. So now the surgery cost alone has been jacked up to $50 each PLUS all the rest? impossible and unfair to expect animal welfare groups to find all this extra money. When there is a less expensive alternative with volunteer help which consists of people using their vacation time and spending considerable funds to get here and stay here simply to help...There is simply no way to justify this or persuade the animal loving public that the VMAB is justified in this action. They are also alienating their best private paying clients, which is really sad.
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 30 November 2013, 11:38 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
No answer yet, how strange.
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 30 November 2013, 11:27 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
Because doing 700 surgeries a year has obviously not solved the problem; although doing that many is great, it's a band-aid to this massive problem and this problem grows on a daily basis as more puppies and kittens are born daily into lives of misery and suffering. No one is suggesting that foreigners be allowed to come in for the next hundred years. The idea is to get some high volume s/n vets in here for a week or two at a time, as often as necessary, to target and hit hard the biggest problem areas. There are some vets for whom this is their specialty. Why would we turn away vets who can do 50-100 surgeries in one day - are there any high volume s/n specialists in the Bahamas? If not it's ok! Most private vets even in the U.S. are not high volume s/n vets. These vets coming in are not private vets looking for a relaxing vacation on the beach. They are vets who have honed their skills in s/n and want to give back to suffering animals everywhere. Why in the world would we turn this down, it defies explanation. The point is to do as many surgeries possible in the shortest time frame possible in the worst areas - it's called targeted s/n and it is the only thing that will get a handle on this problem. After which time, the idea is that the local private vets will do the maintenance s/n that needs to be done all along as of course more dogs are imported, bred etc. And some will inevitably be missed or unable to be done even during the most intensive MASH clinics. What about continuing education? Why would local vets not want to take advantage of working alongside specialists in these efforts? Does the VMAB require continuing education for annual licensing? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity especially for young local vets to learn from seasoned high volume spay neuter vets? What in the world is wrong with that??? It can only help everyone. The day that anyone in any profession, thinks they have nothing left to learn, is probably the day they should retire. We can and should all strive to learn as much as we can from whomever we can about our respective fields and interests. This whole thing is just sad.
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 30 November 2013, 11:16 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
"...hence the several animal welfare groups that sponsor these surgeries." That says it all. If struggling animal shelters and rescue groups are paying local vets $50 each, that is not free service provided by local vets. Low cost, yes. Free, NO. Giving back entails giving. Not covering your costs by charging others who also did not contribute to this problem and who incur many additional costs in housing, feeding, transporting etc all these animals to your clinics.
On Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition
Posted 30 November 2013, 10:55 p.m. Suggest removal
ETJ says...
Sadly, legislation alone will never solve this problem; especially legislation that does not get implemented and enforced.
On Operation Potcake has been cancelled following opposition from local vets. How do you think the spay and neuter programme should be run?
Posted 30 November 2013, 10:33 p.m. Suggest removal