You are right. It IS the government's responsibility. The FNM was the government for 15 of the last 20 years. So why didn't the FNM put in the lights during their three tenures? Every argument you have made against the PLP can be used in triplicate against the FNM.
And one final time [for the record] I am not blaming the deaths on the ANY government. A simple case in point - why were the people sitting in the trucks? Why didn't they get out when they heard the plane approach? They had to know it was dangerous to remain. My point is that there is a certain element of free will in almost every instance that influences outcomes. This situation is not as simple as "blame the government".
This isn't about blame; it's about getting the facts straight. It's about making people realize that procrastination can have unexpected consequences.
I agree with the comment about blaming the people if anyone is to be blamed. I think we surrender our power to the politicians and do not sufficiently hold their feet to the fire when it comes to issues that really matter. MP Hanna has pledged to see that this issue of unlighted runways on other islands is addressed. Are we going to do our jobs as citizens, or are we going to spend all our energies hitting out at our political enemies? This is a time for discussion, not backbiting.
On the subject of V. Alfred Grey's comments, keep in mind that Mr. Grey is speaking from the perspective of a grieving loved one. Unlike many of our other representatives, Mr. Grey knew the deceased people personally. He visited their homes, ate with them, considered them friends, as parts of the small, close-knit community. He is actually a member of that shocked, grieving community of which you speak. While it may seem distasteful to those on the outside looking in, it's neither untimely or irrelevant. Unfortunately, there's a lot of "blaming" going on right now. And realistically it's a very human reaction to the loss of loved ones this way. The anger is real, potent, and often crudely expressed...
In the end, what matters is insisting that changes are made so this kind of thing can't happen again.
The government changed in 2007.... historical fact. The I group began working less than 6 months before the election. After that, the government put their project on hold. The recession didn't take hold until the following year. It's not logical to say the I Group "did nothing" when they had no other choice.
As for the other points you raise, if you are looking for "big infrastructure projects", are you only accepting ones that you find beautiful enough? How big is big? Do you realize that the vast majority of schools built throughout this country were built during the PLP's first stint? Government clinics? Do they count? What about roads, docks, bridges? What about the extension of electricity and telephone service? Do they count? The establishment of ZNS television? Expansion of the public library system? Development of Yellow Elder and Elizabeth Estates?
The facts are out there. Avail yourself of them.
Even the comment about Mayaguana being an FNM stronghold can be substantiated by referring to the polling returns for the last 4-5 general elections.
One more time. Get the FACTS. The I-Group project had as its first stage the revitalization of the Mayaguana airport, which would have been completed by the end of 2007. After the 2007 elections, the FNM stopped the project, then spent the next 4+ years reviewing it. The project is only now going forward after the recent elections of 2012. It is ridiculously fallacious to accuse the I Group of not building under the FNM administration what the FNM categorically prohibited them from building.
Again, I have not blamed anyone for these deaths. The facts are not biased; they're just there.
And why commit the logical fallacy of your last statement / rhetorical question? It contributes nothing to the discussion and is merely leading.
Infrastructural development has been the catch-22 of The Bahamas. Without it, remote areas like Mayaguana and Crooked Island cannot hope for sustained growth in the local economy. However, the struggling economy on these islands is one reason why residents leave for the "big city", which makes it easier and easier for our centralized government to see them as a low priority.
I don't think the Family Islands were particularly top priority for Ingraham's government. I think they had a pretty basic approach, which was to invest where they felt they would get the strongest economic return. Hence developments in Abaco, Grand Bahama and Exuma were given top priority, but other Family Islands had to wait. [When one considers some of the economic challenges seen globally during this period, one cannot be surprised at this conservative approach.]
My argument all along has been that it shouldn't be an either-or proposition. We as a country have some unique challenges to face, especially geographically, that cannot be effectively addressed using the traditional methods. We need to develop new approaches that allow each island its best opportunity at economic success, without hindering the forward motion of others. For me this means a certain autonomy at the local government level to decide which projects are most needful and to prioritize how they will be handled. But it also means that the central government needs to be more sensitive to the needs of rural communities and more creative in its approaches to the redistribution of revenues.
I agree with you; casting blame may salve the emotional wounds of the community, but in the long run it does not solve problems. I applaud Minister Hanna's decision to move the airport upgrade projects forward, and I like the economic efficacy behind solar-powered lights for these remote runways. I'm only hoping it doesn't take further tragedies of this type to motivate creative, cost-effective and timely infrastructural improvements throughout the Family Islands. One is more than enough.
Again, the facts are that the I-Group project which would have addressed this airport's problem in 2007 was "reviewed" by the FNM government for almost 5 years.... until just before the recent election, when it was suddenly considered "ok" to go ahead. PM Ingraham went to Mayaguana and told the people they didn't need any airport upgrades,... and the people the people clapped. I'm not talking what I "hear"; I'm talking what I know.
MP Hanna is only stating what happened. Any blame imputed is just that - imputed.
I find the person to whom you responded perhaps the most realistic voice amongst those commenting here. Each successive government has done its part to improve the lives of Bahamians. Blaming the PLP for developing infrastructure at a reasonable pace between 1970 and 1990 is not historically accurate. When you consider that in 1967 there were still parts of new providence which had not been electrified, much less the remotest islands like Mayaguana, you begin to realize the sheer progress we have made. When the FNM took power in 1992, they met electrification plans on the drawing board. They carried them forward, and extended other infrastructural gains to the remote islands. Even the much-maligned road projects of the last 10 years are realizations of projections made up to 50 years ago. But if you are not aware of the reality of our history, it's easy to run around "blaming" the party you don't like.
There shouldn't HAVE to be an either-or here. Both of these things are infrastructural upgrades, and one would like to think that both have benefits. Unfortunately there are too many who feel that an upgrade that overtly impacts the major population centre should exclude upgrades to smaller population areas. So nothing gets done in the Family Islands, when it is entirely possible to do both, if we would only change our mindset.
Read the statement above by the transportation minister. If the prior government had not tried to hold Mayaguana residents hostage to the political process, the I-Group would have upgraded this airport as much as 5 years ago. I don't think the PLP can be held at fault here. The facts are that while the prior administration [Christie] worked consistently to upgrade infrastructure in the Family Islands, the 2007 Ingraham administration for all intents and purposes abandoned such upgrades.
Obviously at the time it was felt that it WAS sufficiently necessary. Given the current circumstances, I suppose it now seems less so. AFAIK, the plane was landing rather than taking off, so I don't think Mr. Black was directly involved in the crash. IMO Robert Black is lucky to be alive. Aside from the prior health issues, the shock of losing 3 relatives in such a tragic manner is life-threatening.
NewsWorthy says...
Yes I have been there.
You are right. It IS the government's responsibility. The FNM was the government for 15 of the last 20 years. So why didn't the FNM put in the lights during their three tenures? Every argument you have made against the PLP can be used in triplicate against the FNM.
And one final time [for the record] I am not blaming the deaths on the ANY government. A simple case in point - why were the people sitting in the trucks? Why didn't they get out when they heard the plane approach? They had to know it was dangerous to remain. My point is that there is a certain element of free will in almost every instance that influences outcomes. This situation is not as simple as "blame the government".
This isn't about blame; it's about getting the facts straight. It's about making people realize that procrastination can have unexpected consequences.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 5 April 2013, 11:50 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
I agree with the comment about blaming the people if anyone is to be blamed. I think we surrender our power to the politicians and do not sufficiently hold their feet to the fire when it comes to issues that really matter. MP Hanna has pledged to see that this issue of unlighted runways on other islands is addressed. Are we going to do our jobs as citizens, or are we going to spend all our energies hitting out at our political enemies? This is a time for discussion, not backbiting.
On the subject of V. Alfred Grey's comments, keep in mind that Mr. Grey is speaking from the perspective of a grieving loved one. Unlike many of our other representatives, Mr. Grey knew the deceased people personally. He visited their homes, ate with them, considered them friends, as parts of the small, close-knit community. He is actually a member of that shocked, grieving community of which you speak. While it may seem distasteful to those on the outside looking in, it's neither untimely or irrelevant. Unfortunately, there's a lot of "blaming" going on right now. And realistically it's a very human reaction to the loss of loved ones this way. The anger is real, potent, and often crudely expressed...
In the end, what matters is insisting that changes are made so this kind of thing can't happen again.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 5 April 2013, 11:36 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
The government changed in 2007.... historical fact. The I group began working less than 6 months before the election. After that, the government put their project on hold. The recession didn't take hold until the following year. It's not logical to say the I Group "did nothing" when they had no other choice.
As for the other points you raise, if you are looking for "big infrastructure projects", are you only accepting ones that you find beautiful enough? How big is big? Do you realize that the vast majority of schools built throughout this country were built during the PLP's first stint? Government clinics? Do they count? What about roads, docks, bridges? What about the extension of electricity and telephone service? Do they count? The establishment of ZNS television? Expansion of the public library system? Development of Yellow Elder and Elizabeth Estates?
The facts are out there. Avail yourself of them.
Even the comment about Mayaguana being an FNM stronghold can be substantiated by referring to the polling returns for the last 4-5 general elections.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 5 April 2013, 11:17 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
One more time. Get the FACTS. The I-Group project had as its first stage the revitalization of the Mayaguana airport, which would have been completed by the end of 2007. After the 2007 elections, the FNM stopped the project, then spent the next 4+ years reviewing it. The project is only now going forward after the recent elections of 2012. It is ridiculously fallacious to accuse the I Group of not building under the FNM administration what the FNM categorically prohibited them from building.
Again, I have not blamed anyone for these deaths. The facts are not biased; they're just there.
And why commit the logical fallacy of your last statement / rhetorical question? It contributes nothing to the discussion and is merely leading.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 5 April 2013, 11 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
It would be great if you turned your caps off. There's a key on the computer that says caps lock. Press it one time.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 5 April 2013, 10:49 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
Infrastructural development has been the catch-22 of The Bahamas. Without it, remote areas like Mayaguana and Crooked Island cannot hope for sustained growth in the local economy. However, the struggling economy on these islands is one reason why residents leave for the "big city", which makes it easier and easier for our centralized government to see them as a low priority.
I don't think the Family Islands were particularly top priority for Ingraham's government. I think they had a pretty basic approach, which was to invest where they felt they would get the strongest economic return. Hence developments in Abaco, Grand Bahama and Exuma were given top priority, but other Family Islands had to wait. [When one considers some of the economic challenges seen globally during this period, one cannot be surprised at this conservative approach.]
My argument all along has been that it shouldn't be an either-or proposition. We as a country have some unique challenges to face, especially geographically, that cannot be effectively addressed using the traditional methods. We need to develop new approaches that allow each island its best opportunity at economic success, without hindering the forward motion of others. For me this means a certain autonomy at the local government level to decide which projects are most needful and to prioritize how they will be handled. But it also means that the central government needs to be more sensitive to the needs of rural communities and more creative in its approaches to the redistribution of revenues.
I agree with you; casting blame may salve the emotional wounds of the community, but in the long run it does not solve problems. I applaud Minister Hanna's decision to move the airport upgrade projects forward, and I like the economic efficacy behind solar-powered lights for these remote runways. I'm only hoping it doesn't take further tragedies of this type to motivate creative, cost-effective and timely infrastructural improvements throughout the Family Islands. One is more than enough.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 5 April 2013, 1:56 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
Mayaguana is an FNM stronghold.
Again, the facts are that the I-Group project which would have addressed this airport's problem in 2007 was "reviewed" by the FNM government for almost 5 years.... until just before the recent election, when it was suddenly considered "ok" to go ahead. PM Ingraham went to Mayaguana and told the people they didn't need any airport upgrades,... and the people the people clapped. I'm not talking what I "hear"; I'm talking what I know.
MP Hanna is only stating what happened. Any blame imputed is just that - imputed.
I find the person to whom you responded perhaps the most realistic voice amongst those commenting here. Each successive government has done its part to improve the lives of Bahamians. Blaming the PLP for developing infrastructure at a reasonable pace between 1970 and 1990 is not historically accurate. When you consider that in 1967 there were still parts of new providence which had not been electrified, much less the remotest islands like Mayaguana, you begin to realize the sheer progress we have made. When the FNM took power in 1992, they met electrification plans on the drawing board. They carried them forward, and extended other infrastructural gains to the remote islands. Even the much-maligned road projects of the last 10 years are realizations of projections made up to 50 years ago. But if you are not aware of the reality of our history, it's easy to run around "blaming" the party you don't like.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 5 April 2013, 1:35 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
There shouldn't HAVE to be an either-or here. Both of these things are infrastructural upgrades, and one would like to think that both have benefits. Unfortunately there are too many who feel that an upgrade that overtly impacts the major population centre should exclude upgrades to smaller population areas. So nothing gets done in the Family Islands, when it is entirely possible to do both, if we would only change our mindset.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 4 April 2013, 5:40 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
Read the statement above by the transportation minister. If the prior government had not tried to hold Mayaguana residents hostage to the political process, the I-Group would have upgraded this airport as much as 5 years ago. I don't think the PLP can be held at fault here. The facts are that while the prior administration [Christie] worked consistently to upgrade infrastructure in the Family Islands, the 2007 Ingraham administration for all intents and purposes abandoned such upgrades.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 4 April 2013, 5:33 p.m. Suggest removal
NewsWorthy says...
Obviously at the time it was felt that it WAS sufficiently necessary. Given the current circumstances, I suppose it now seems less so. AFAIK, the plane was landing rather than taking off, so I don't think Mr. Black was directly involved in the crash. IMO Robert Black is lucky to be alive. Aside from the prior health issues, the shock of losing 3 relatives in such a tragic manner is life-threatening.
On UPDATE: Minister releases statement on Mayaguana runway crash
Posted 4 April 2013, 12:20 p.m. Suggest removal