I would say three things: 1. I would break the law to protect my family and keep my children alive. I hope you would too. 2. The new immigration policy is in itself illegal and unconstitutional. Two wrongs don't make a right, that is kind of Ethics 101. 3. It is logically inconsistent to put the law on a pedestal and say 'anyone who breaks it is evil', no matter what the circumstances, then turn around and defend an enforcement policy that is illegal just because, you know, too many of them here and they need to go. Either the law is sacred and inviolable, or it is not. You can't have it both ways. In fact, the very fact that you want to have your cake and eat it too in this regard, suggests its not really the law you are concerned about at all, that this is just an excuse to promote an underlying prejudice.
Tal, this have nothing to do with "in your face" Haitians. This is about an unlawful, unconstitutional effort to round up and remove people without due process. They aren't just going after "uppity" Haitians - the basis of the policy's illegality is the very fact that it is indiscriminate. Immigration only has the right to detain someone on suspicion that they are illegal, if they have a warrant based on demonstrable probable cause. Instead, they are rounding up illegals, those who have been naturalized, those who have applied through the legal avenues to be naturalized, Bahamians who look "too Haitian" etc, and then sorting the wheat from the chaff afterwards. That is a violation of the constitution, plain and simple. People aren't being "in your face", they are speaking up for their rights. Why not have a rational, constitutional policy that respects due process, people's rights, and fair to all. That in connection with a proper border protection plan is the way to deal with this problem. I am not Haitian in the slightest by the way...
expatkz - thank you for being a beacon of sense and humanity amid this sea of bigotry and foolishness. I honestly hang my head in shame over this. How did my people become this? How in 40 years, not even a generation, did we go from the oppressed and downtrodden poor, to the haters of the oppressed and downtrodden poor? When did we, who used to be our brother's keeper, who used to ask "What would Jesus do?," become the kind of people who generalize, who judge an entire group of people instead of recognizing them as individuals. Who blame the victims and condemn them for trying to live. When did we become the kind people that sit smug and self-satisfied, looking down upon people desperate to give their children a better life? When did we become the kind of people that adopt the self-righteousness of ignorant, suggesting these poor people should do impossible things like "Go back and fix their own country"? As if we know how to fix any of our problems here. As if any one of us, given the choice between making our children safe and endangering their very lives in a vain attempt to rescue a failed country, wouldn't do the same thing as Haitians do. What exactly is a poorly educated young Haitian-Bahamian mother supposed to do, exactly, to "fix Haiti"? How is she going to clean the cholera out of the water supply, when the United Nations can't manage to do it. How is she going to make food where there is none, where everyone else is eating mud? How is she to stop her children from dying from the countless illnesses and deprivations that run rampant through Haiti today? What would any of the people on this thread do if they found themselves in her shoes? All the chest puffing indignation on display here is nothing but petty, egocentric tribalism. How did this happen to us? How did we forget who we are and where we came from? We should be ashamed to look in the mirror.
@birdiestrachan - that is nonsense on so many levels. I am right here and I live it every day. Fact 1, it is not "hard" for a fleet of modern naval vessels equipped with radar and other tracking devices to locate and interdict loaded sloop crawling along at a snails pace, under the power of a sail made from stitched together flour sacks. It really isn't. Fact 2, the reason so many do make it through is because they know before who among those "excellent" authorities you mentioned they will need to bribe on the way in. Any Haitian will tell you that before coming, they have to save up to pay the boat captain AND the Defense Force/Immigration. Fact 3, it may cost us millions to send them back, but that is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of millions of taxpayer money those "excellent" people in government, give to their friends in the form of BOB bailouts for a secret list of buddies, referendums the results of which are ignored at the behest of certain web shop operators, land giveaways to friendly foreign investors (amazing how no one has a problem with the government buying white foreigner anymore) and etc and etc.
@Deablo01 and CatIslandBoy - thank you for being beacons of sense and humanity amid this sea of bigotry and foolishness. I honestly hang my head in shame over this. How did my people become this? How in 40 years, not even a generation, did we go from the oppressed and downtrodden poor, to the haters of the oppressed and downtrodden poor? When did we, who used to be our brother's keeper, who used to ask "What would Jesus do?," become the kind of people who generalize, who judge an entire group of people instead of recognizing them as individuals. Who blame the victims and condemn them for trying to live. When did we become the kind people that sit smug and self-satisfied, looking down upon people desperate to give their children a better life? When did we become the kind of people that adopt the self-righteousness of ignorant, suggesting these poor people should do impossible things like "Go back and fix their own country"? As if we know how to fix any of our problems here. As if any one of us, given the choice between making our children safe and endangering their very lives in a vain attempt to rescue a failed country, wouldn't do the same thing as Haitians do. What exactly is a poorly educated young Haitian-Bahamian mother supposed to do, exactly, to "fix Haiti"? How is she going to clean the cholera out of the water supply, when the United Nations can't manage to do it. How is she going to make food where there is none, where everyone else is eating mud? How is she to stop her children from dying from the countless illnesses and deprivations that run rampant through Haiti today? What would any of the people on this thread do if they found themselves in her shoes? All the chest puffing indignation on display here is nothing but petty, egocentric tribalism. How did this happen to us? How did we forget who we are and where we came from? We should be ashamed to look in the mirror.
Ironic coming from someone whose user name suggests they object to new law that will place VAT on our backs. If a law is unjust, we are right to oppose it. Similarly, if the actions of a law enforcement officer are illegal, we should, indeed must refuse to cooperate. There is no legal basis for requiring people to walk with ID. Therefore, an individual cannot be detained on this basis. Added to which, the girl was stopped illegally in the first place, as there was no warrant in her name. The authorities can't just stop whoever they feel like. She did not resist lawful arrest.
It is the government that should be held responsible for this. The company has responsibilities to the residents, yes, but it is the government that is supposed to ensure that they live up to those responsibilities.
I hear you Emac, the same kind of ultimatum can be given to us though, something like "If you don't want the world to condemn and shun you, make sure your method of enforcing immigration laws is humane and in line with your own constitution." Migration is a big, hot-button issue around the world right now, we do not realize what kind of fire we are playing with here. Would the country be better off with no illegals, and no tourism jobs?
Voltaire says...
I would say three things: 1. I would break the law to protect my family and keep my children alive. I hope you would too. 2. The new immigration policy is in itself illegal and unconstitutional. Two wrongs don't make a right, that is kind of Ethics 101. 3. It is logically inconsistent to put the law on a pedestal and say 'anyone who breaks it is evil', no matter what the circumstances, then turn around and defend an enforcement policy that is illegal just because, you know, too many of them here and they need to go. Either the law is sacred and inviolable, or it is not. You can't have it both ways. In fact, the very fact that you want to have your cake and eat it too in this regard, suggests its not really the law you are concerned about at all, that this is just an excuse to promote an underlying prejudice.
On Children 'left hungry and slept on floor' at Detention Centre
Posted 6 December 2014, 1:47 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
Tal, this have nothing to do with "in your face" Haitians. This is about an unlawful, unconstitutional effort to round up and remove people without due process. They aren't just going after "uppity" Haitians - the basis of the policy's illegality is the very fact that it is indiscriminate. Immigration only has the right to detain someone on suspicion that they are illegal, if they have a warrant based on demonstrable probable cause. Instead, they are rounding up illegals, those who have been naturalized, those who have applied through the legal avenues to be naturalized, Bahamians who look "too Haitian" etc, and then sorting the wheat from the chaff afterwards. That is a violation of the constitution, plain and simple. People aren't being "in your face", they are speaking up for their rights. Why not have a rational, constitutional policy that respects due process, people's rights, and fair to all. That in connection with a proper border protection plan is the way to deal with this problem. I am not Haitian in the slightest by the way...
On Bahamian-born woman accuses immigration staff of assault
Posted 6 December 2014, 1:37 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
expatkz - thank you for being a beacon of sense and humanity amid this sea of bigotry and foolishness. I honestly hang my head in shame over this. How did my people become this? How in 40 years, not even a generation, did we go from the oppressed and downtrodden poor, to the haters of the oppressed and downtrodden poor? When did we, who used to be our brother's keeper, who used to ask "What would Jesus do?," become the kind of people who generalize, who judge an entire group of people instead of recognizing them as individuals. Who blame the victims and condemn them for trying to live. When did we become the kind people that sit smug and self-satisfied, looking down upon people desperate to give their children a better life? When did we become the kind of people that adopt the self-righteousness of ignorant, suggesting these poor people should do impossible things like "Go back and fix their own country"? As if we know how to fix any of our problems here. As if any one of us, given the choice between making our children safe and endangering their very lives in a vain attempt to rescue a failed country, wouldn't do the same thing as Haitians do. What exactly is a poorly educated young Haitian-Bahamian mother supposed to do, exactly, to "fix Haiti"? How is she going to clean the cholera out of the water supply, when the United Nations can't manage to do it. How is she going to make food where there is none, where everyone else is eating mud? How is she to stop her children from dying from the countless illnesses and deprivations that run rampant through Haiti today? What would any of the people on this thread do if they found themselves in her shoes? All the chest puffing indignation on display here is nothing but petty, egocentric tribalism. How did this happen to us? How did we forget who we are and where we came from? We should be ashamed to look in the mirror.
On Children 'left hungry and slept on floor' at Detention Centre
Posted 6 December 2014, 12:52 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
@birdiestrachan - that is nonsense on so many levels. I am right here and I live it every day. Fact 1, it is not "hard" for a fleet of modern naval vessels equipped with radar and other tracking devices to locate and interdict loaded sloop crawling along at a snails pace, under the power of a sail made from stitched together flour sacks. It really isn't. Fact 2, the reason so many do make it through is because they know before who among those "excellent" authorities you mentioned they will need to bribe on the way in. Any Haitian will tell you that before coming, they have to save up to pay the boat captain AND the Defense Force/Immigration. Fact 3, it may cost us millions to send them back, but that is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the hundreds of millions of taxpayer money those "excellent" people in government, give to their friends in the form of BOB bailouts for a secret list of buddies, referendums the results of which are ignored at the behest of certain web shop operators, land giveaways to friendly foreign investors (amazing how no one has a problem with the government buying white foreigner anymore) and etc and etc.
On Bahamian-born woman accuses immigration staff of assault
Posted 6 December 2014, 12:49 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
@Deablo01 and CatIslandBoy - thank you for being beacons of sense and humanity amid this sea of bigotry and foolishness. I honestly hang my head in shame over this. How did my people become this? How in 40 years, not even a generation, did we go from the oppressed and downtrodden poor, to the haters of the oppressed and downtrodden poor? When did we, who used to be our brother's keeper, who used to ask "What would Jesus do?," become the kind of people who generalize, who judge an entire group of people instead of recognizing them as individuals. Who blame the victims and condemn them for trying to live. When did we become the kind people that sit smug and self-satisfied, looking down upon people desperate to give their children a better life? When did we become the kind of people that adopt the self-righteousness of ignorant, suggesting these poor people should do impossible things like "Go back and fix their own country"? As if we know how to fix any of our problems here. As if any one of us, given the choice between making our children safe and endangering their very lives in a vain attempt to rescue a failed country, wouldn't do the same thing as Haitians do. What exactly is a poorly educated young Haitian-Bahamian mother supposed to do, exactly, to "fix Haiti"? How is she going to clean the cholera out of the water supply, when the United Nations can't manage to do it. How is she going to make food where there is none, where everyone else is eating mud? How is she to stop her children from dying from the countless illnesses and deprivations that run rampant through Haiti today? What would any of the people on this thread do if they found themselves in her shoes? All the chest puffing indignation on display here is nothing but petty, egocentric tribalism. How did this happen to us? How did we forget who we are and where we came from? We should be ashamed to look in the mirror.
On Bahamian-born woman accuses immigration staff of assault
Posted 6 December 2014, 12:38 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
Ironic coming from someone whose user name suggests they object to new law that will place VAT on our backs. If a law is unjust, we are right to oppose it. Similarly, if the actions of a law enforcement officer are illegal, we should, indeed must refuse to cooperate. There is no legal basis for requiring people to walk with ID. Therefore, an individual cannot be detained on this basis. Added to which, the girl was stopped illegally in the first place, as there was no warrant in her name. The authorities can't just stop whoever they feel like. She did not resist lawful arrest.
On Bahamian-born woman accuses immigration staff of assault
Posted 6 December 2014, 12:08 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
really? that is the thing that jumps out at you from this story???
On Bahamian-born woman accuses immigration staff of assault
Posted 5 December 2014, 2:09 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
It is the government that should be held responsible for this. The company has responsibilities to the residents, yes, but it is the government that is supposed to ensure that they live up to those responsibilities.
On No Rubis fuel leak probe for a month, says former operator
Posted 5 December 2014, 12:38 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
Any response?
On Survey gives the Bahamas positive report on perception of corruption
Posted 5 December 2014, 12:07 p.m. Suggest removal
Voltaire says...
I hear you Emac, the same kind of ultimatum can be given to us though, something like "If you don't want the world to condemn and shun you, make sure your method of enforcing immigration laws is humane and in line with your own constitution." Migration is a big, hot-button issue around the world right now, we do not realize what kind of fire we are playing with here. Would the country be better off with no illegals, and no tourism jobs?
On Barbed wire 'thrown in immigration officer's face'
Posted 5 December 2014, 12:06 p.m. Suggest removal