BOBBY look at the data bud - what is increasing is the standardised proportion per 100k that is increasing..not the gross deaths. Come on we've been playing tennis on mortality rates for a minute. I know the difference between the increase of death because the sample size of vaccinated people proportionately expands versus an increase in age standardised mortality relative to the population of vaccinated persons.
"As more of the population is vaccinated, you have a higher number of deaths (percentage of population doesn't change) by causes other than COVID." is what you said BUT this is exactly what is changing. The standardised rate or percentage of deaths in vaccinated populations is increasing. The increase is is most substantial after 1st doses + 21 days and gradual after 2 doses.
Between the two we're seeing a 10 fold increase in the "per 100k age standardised" rate of death in those two populations.
Was going to leave the obvious plausible unspoken - the question that needs to be asked is whether increased mortality from vaccine side effects being shoveled under the rug…or are swathes of old people kicking it because because of missed diagnostics. The issue with the later approach is that the 20-40 something year group is seeing increased above normal mortality as well…
Interesting data has just been released in UK - detailed breakdown of all cause deaths standardised per millions of population of vaccinated and unvaccinated mortality between the months of January and July. Putting aside leaky vaccine effectiveness (we know it works but not for long) - what is really interesting in the data is that deaths **for causes other than covid** per million of vaccinated people and deaths at 21 days or more after the first dose has steadily exploded over the last six months in spite of the relative decrease of covid related deaths.
For example: Death for things other than covid for 1st dose and 2nd dosed peeps in January was around 10 per million of respective populations but by end of June this had increased 10 fold to 100+ per million. The unvaccinated population basically averaged around 34 per million in January and decreased to about 24 per million at the end of June - this is easier to understand as the vast majority of the unvaccination population at the end June are children under the age of 16 and those that are too ill or hospitalised to take the vaccination...
So the question is what is killing vaccinated people that isn't covid in such greater numbers - 10 fold increase!? The august data has not been release yet but Excess mortality is also way above average right now...something bad is going on.. collateral damage from lockdowns? Delayed check ups? Or something else..?
Are they counting fully vaccinated deaths anyway? If two people with cancer die - one is vaccinated and the other isn't - you can bet good money that the person with vax in their veins will go down as a cancer death and the other as a probable covid death. This is already the case in the US - as you if you are not vaxxed you have to do a test to enter hospital, the vax person doesn't. This skews the likelyhood of over counting the unvaccinated being hospitalised and being covid deaths irrespective if they are in hospital for something or die of other causes.
Sure thing bobby have a gander - math isn’t my strong suit- so happy to hear your thoughts.
Firstly clarification on position - I was examining a specific period July 20th to August 20th - ie the difference between TB 22 and TB20. Why? because 4 months earlier is when UK hit 50% of population vaccinated and so a sizeable portion of those vaxxed would be in the period when vax efficacy is being shown to collapse.
Secondly You seem to be looking at an old briefing - TB 20 - which are from actually Feb - July 20th - so little out behind the times. I know a habit of yours (wink) but let’s look at the most recent report which is TB22* and brings us to August 20th.
Soo to it - parameters from TB 22 are the following..
Total Delta Deaths : 1,798 Vaccinated (2 doses) Deaths: 1,091 (60%) Unvaccinated (no doses): 536 (30%)
England Population: 56,550,138 as of mid 2020 ‘Vaxxed’ with 2 doses as of August 20th: 34,445,109** ‘Unvaxed’ Total: 32,685,516
So standardising in terms of mortality rates per million in unvaccinated and vaccinated populations you get the following:
1,091 / 34,445,109 x 1 million = 31.7 Vaccinated Delta deaths per million 536 / 32,685,516 x 1 million = 24.2 Unvaccinated Delta deaths per million
…hmmm it appears that in fact vaccinated ARE dying in much higher level per their respective populations than the unvaccinated…You can show me how to normalise for age and all that jazz - thats not my wheel house.
1500 people will have died of heart disease in the same period…1200 of cancer…the fact that 453 seems so big to you shows how COVID has monopolized the health narrative.
whogothere says...
BOBBY look at the data bud - what is increasing is the standardised proportion per 100k that is increasing..not the gross deaths. Come on we've been playing tennis on mortality rates for a minute. I know the difference between the increase of death because the sample size of vaccinated people proportionately expands versus an increase in age standardised mortality relative to the population of vaccinated persons.
"As more of the population is vaccinated, you have a higher number of deaths (percentage of population doesn't change) by causes other than COVID." is what you said BUT this is exactly what is changing. The standardised rate or percentage of deaths in vaccinated populations is increasing. The increase is is most substantial after 1st doses + 21 days and gradual after 2 doses.
Between the two we're seeing a 10 fold increase in the "per 100k age standardised" rate of death in those two populations.
Look at that data.
On Vast majority of COVID dead never took jab
Posted 13 September 2021, 9:49 p.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
Was going to leave the obvious plausible unspoken - the question that needs to be asked is whether increased mortality from vaccine side effects being shoveled under the rug…or are swathes of old people kicking it because because of missed diagnostics. The issue with the later approach is that the 20-40 something year group is seeing increased above normal mortality as well…
On Vast majority of COVID dead never took jab
Posted 13 September 2021, 4:04 p.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
Interesting data has just been released in UK - detailed breakdown of all cause deaths standardised per millions of population of vaccinated and unvaccinated mortality between the months of January and July. Putting aside leaky vaccine effectiveness (we know it works but not for long) - what is really interesting in the data is that deaths **for causes other than covid** per million of vaccinated people and deaths at 21 days or more after the first dose has steadily exploded over the last six months in spite of the relative decrease of covid related deaths.
For example: Death for things other than covid for 1st dose and 2nd dosed peeps in January was around 10 per million of respective populations but by end of June this had increased 10 fold to 100+ per million. The unvaccinated population basically averaged around 34 per million in January and decreased to about 24 per million at the end of June - this is easier to understand as the vast majority of the unvaccination population at the end June are children under the age of 16 and those that are too ill or hospitalised to take the vaccination...
So the question is what is killing vaccinated people that isn't covid in such greater numbers - 10 fold increase!? The august data has not been release yet but Excess mortality is also way above average right now...something bad is going on.. collateral damage from lockdowns? Delayed check ups? Or something else..?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/exce…
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic…
On Vast majority of COVID dead never took jab
Posted 13 September 2021, 1:31 p.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
Smells of desperation - last minute election promises aren't worth the data they're communicated on...
On PM’S PLEDGE TO HELP NEW HOME OWNERS: Minnis unveils range of concessions to kick start house building explosion
Posted 13 September 2021, 12:59 p.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
Are they counting fully vaccinated deaths anyway? If two people with cancer die - one is vaccinated and the other isn't - you can bet good money that the person with vax in their veins will go down as a cancer death and the other as a probable covid death. This is already the case in the US - as you if you are not vaxxed you have to do a test to enter hospital, the vax person doesn't. This skews the likelyhood of over counting the unvaccinated being hospitalised and being covid deaths irrespective if they are in hospital for something or die of other causes.
eg below:
https://www.stamfordhealth.org/healthfl…
On Country cannot sustain COVID cases rise 'much longer'
Posted 11 September 2021, 10:54 a.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
Well look at that: COVID illness and death occurs almost exclusively in those with profound comorbidity: surprise!
- Less than 1% of deaths had no chronic conditions
- 96% of deaths had 2+ conditions
- **Nearly 70% had 6 or MORE co-morbidities**
https://cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/pdf/21_…
On Does this look safe for you?
Posted 10 September 2021, 2:36 p.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
Yep it’s pretty safe -
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/22…
On Does this look safe for you?
Posted 10 September 2021, 1:53 p.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
Sure thing bobby have a gander - math isn’t my strong suit- so happy to hear your thoughts.
Firstly clarification on position - I was examining a specific period July 20th to August 20th - ie the difference between TB 22 and TB20. Why? because 4 months earlier is when UK hit 50% of population vaccinated and so a sizeable portion of those vaxxed would be in the period when vax efficacy is being shown to collapse.
Secondly You seem to be looking at an old briefing - TB 20 - which are from actually Feb - July 20th - so little out behind the times. I know a habit of yours (wink) but let’s look at the most recent report which is TB22* and brings us to August 20th.
Soo to it - parameters from TB 22 are the following..
Total Delta Deaths : 1,798
Vaccinated (2 doses) Deaths: 1,091 (60%)
Unvaccinated (no doses): 536 (30%)
England Population: 56,550,138 as of mid 2020
‘Vaxxed’ with 2 doses as of August 20th: 34,445,109**
‘Unvaxed’ Total: 32,685,516
So standardising in terms of mortality rates per million in unvaccinated and vaccinated populations you get the following:
1,091 / 34,445,109 x 1 million = 31.7 Vaccinated Delta deaths per million
536 / 32,685,516 x 1 million = 24.2 Unvaccinated Delta deaths per million
…hmmm it appears that in fact vaccinated ARE dying in much higher level per their respective populations than the unvaccinated…You can show me how to normalise for age and all that jazz - thats not my wheel house.
*
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u…
**
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s…
On DELTA VARIANT NOW AT LARGE: Health officials confirm feared version of virus has been detected here
Posted 10 September 2021, 7:58 a.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
I know which I'm surprised by your stance that 453 is "a lot"
On DELTA VARIANT NOW AT LARGE: Health officials confirm feared version of virus has been detected here
Posted 9 September 2021, 9:30 p.m. Suggest removal
whogothere says...
1500 people will have died of heart disease in the same period…1200 of cancer…the fact that 453 seems so big to you shows how COVID has monopolized the health narrative.
On DELTA VARIANT NOW AT LARGE: Health officials confirm feared version of virus has been detected here
Posted 9 September 2021, 6:11 p.m. Suggest removal