We essentially should only be dealing with two generations of illegals in the repatriation process - those who came after 1985 and their kids. Mr. Moss correctly asserts, they are Haitians, not stateless individuals. The successive generations, and there really should not be that many, unless there is an epidemic of 30 year old grandparents, are not entitled to citizenship. Mr. Moss clearly ignored paragraph 2:
7 (2) Any application for registration under this Article shall be subject to such exceptions or qualifications as may be prescribed in the interests of national security or public policy.
Sorry economist, no anger here. But it seems as if you are having a meltdown, please relax.
I am, like you, simply contributing my two cents to this topic. I know that many descendants of illegal immigrants will be allowed to stay, unfortunately, due to our unconcerned, incompetent leaders...past and present. I am not experiencing heartburn over that. I am however, hopeful that those who stay will be limited to those who were here in 1985 and prior, and their offspring. That leaves those since then, and presumably the one generation after to consider for repatriation. And like I said previously, the children born of Haitian parents, are considered Haitians per the 2012 Haitian constitution.
It's crazy that any country, especially a small nation like ours, would have such a lack of concern for its people and its border, that so many undocumented persons can come, live, utilize services and procreate for generations without consequence. But the time for blame is over. And, at least, by appearances, the ministry of immigration is finally doing something. If they follow through thousands should be identified, and repatriated. It may be too little, too late, but it's something. And at least going forward there will be clear cut rules and the message to would be illegal immigrants that it is not better for them in the Bahamas.
The question on kids born in the Bahamas to illegal parents is not unresolved. Kids born to Haitian parents are recognized as Haitians by Haiti. The Bahamian law, I'm sure, was crafted with the legal immigrants living and working in the Bahamas who have kids during this time, and possibly moved away. Because of their legal status, they would not have to hide. So the law made sense. This law also has the condition that the application can be denied on issues of national security and public policy. The current crisis with illegal immigrant population was not present at the time and now it's being used against us. Since illegal immigration is a criminal act, and just the sheer number of persons that would have to be granted citizenship stemming from this criminal act - I hope Fred Smith is unsuccessful in his attempts. And that the law is amended to exclude illegal aliens.
I'm beginning to have my doubts that he will do anything.
The politicians on both sides have had such an about-face on this issue in a short period of time that I believe it's simply because of its popularity among voters and there is no real intention to do anything. Just months ago Hubert Minnis and Chipman were advocating for automatic citizenship for Bahamas born Haitians. Even BahamasUncensored dot com, a.k.a Fred Mitchell vehemently defended illegal Haitians and even stated 'they are not a drain on our economy' and 'help build the country'. He did not explain how they are and are not doing this. He also denied that they had children at higher rates. However, to have their population swell to approximately160k in such a short period of time...who is he kidding? At that rate they are on track to match the native population very soon.
I hope whatever his personal feelings, he moves ahead with these new policies or we will certainly become BaHaiti within a short period of time. With so much corruption from our government officials we are well on our way.
So until I see tangible results, I am going to sign out of this debate and hope for the best.
No, they are not here legally, otherwise they would have been provided with citizenship at birth and not simply the right to apply for citizenship at the age of 18. They belong in Haiti, with their parents.
It's just another means to know and record who is in the Bahamas legally or otherwise, via the school system. I think the only way it will work is to have all parents present a birth certificate, passport and/or visa at the time of registration or within a time frame after registration. If the kid is in the school, no visa then likely they will want to speak to the parent to see whether it's the cost, or to skirt immigration. If it's the latter, hopefully repatriation efforts will occur.
I, and most Bahamians, support this policy 100%. There is nothing being done to these kids. And I am sure you know by now the PM said no child will be denied an education. If illegal immigrants decide to keep their kids out of school for fear of being caught, that is entirely on them. Hopefully, they will be apprehended by some other means.
Children born into disadvantaged circumstances, usually endure the consequences of their parents' sins or shortcomings. For the most part, we seem to readily accept that fact of life. Along the same lines, why should the illegal immigrant parent be absolved of personal responsibility for the impact their actions will have on their kids?
The letter addressed the rights of Bahamas born children of illegal Haitians, to register as citizens at eighteen. I was responding to that and I maintain that the immigration ministry does have the right implement immigration policy. They have right to know who is in the country and to employ necessary methods to identify and compile a solid number, that is in no way unconstitutional. That is necessary.
The children of illegal immigrants in the Bahamas, sorry to say, essentially inherited the criminal act of their parents because they too are living illegally in the Bahamas. I don't agree that they should have an expectation of citizenship, but they will have that opportunity at eighteen. I have not heard of that law being replaced with policy. Have you?
The new policies are also not discriminatory. Haitians as the largest group of illegals will, of course, be the most affected. Further, nowhere have I read that kids will not be educated for failure to pay visa fees. Your assumption of these issues is premature. If parents decide to again evade officials by not enrolling their kids in school, they will serve yet another injustice to them.
ispeakthetruth says...
If they are legal, and it's just a matter of processing them, they should be fine at the end of the day, correct? Please calm down!
On Moss criticises immigration plan
Posted 10 February 2015, 3:54 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
We essentially should only be dealing with two generations of illegals in the repatriation process - those who came after 1985 and their kids. Mr. Moss correctly asserts, they are Haitians, not stateless individuals. The successive generations, and there really should not be that many, unless there is an epidemic of 30 year old grandparents, are not entitled to citizenship. Mr. Moss clearly ignored paragraph 2:
7 (2) Any application for registration under this Article shall be subject to such
exceptions or qualifications as may be prescribed in the interests of national security
or public policy.
On Moss criticises immigration plan
Posted 10 February 2015, 12:21 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
Sorry economist, no anger here. But it seems as if you are having a meltdown, please relax.
I am, like you, simply contributing my two cents to this topic. I know that many descendants of illegal immigrants will be allowed to stay, unfortunately, due to our unconcerned, incompetent leaders...past and present. I am not experiencing heartburn over that. I am however, hopeful that those who stay will be limited to those who were here in 1985 and prior, and their offspring. That leaves those since then, and presumably the one generation after to consider for repatriation. And like I said previously, the children born of Haitian parents, are considered Haitians per the 2012 Haitian constitution.
It's crazy that any country, especially a small nation like ours, would have such a lack of concern for its people and its border, that so many undocumented persons can come, live, utilize services and procreate for generations without consequence. But the time for blame is over. And, at least, by appearances, the ministry of immigration is finally doing something. If they follow through thousands should be identified, and repatriated. It may be too little, too late, but it's something. And at least going forward there will be clear cut rules and the message to would be illegal immigrants that it is not better for them in the Bahamas.
On Mitchell: Public backs immigration measures
Posted 10 February 2015, 8:27 a.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
The question on kids born in the Bahamas to illegal parents is not unresolved. Kids born to Haitian parents are recognized as Haitians by Haiti. The Bahamian law, I'm sure, was crafted with the legal immigrants living and working in the Bahamas who have kids during this time, and possibly moved away. Because of their legal status, they would not have to hide. So the law made sense. This law also has the condition that the application can be denied on issues of national security and public policy. The current crisis with illegal immigrant population was not present at the time and now it's being used against us. Since illegal immigration is a criminal act, and just the sheer number of persons that would have to be granted citizenship stemming from this criminal act - I hope Fred Smith is unsuccessful in his attempts. And that the law is amended to exclude illegal aliens.
On Mitchell: Public backs immigration measures
Posted 9 February 2015, 7:36 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
I'm beginning to have my doubts that he will do anything.
The politicians on both sides have had such an about-face on this issue in a short period of time that I believe it's simply because of its popularity among voters and there is no real intention to do anything. Just months ago Hubert Minnis and Chipman were advocating for automatic citizenship for Bahamas born Haitians. Even BahamasUncensored dot com, a.k.a Fred Mitchell vehemently defended illegal Haitians and even stated 'they are not a drain on our economy' and 'help build the country'. He did not explain how they are and are not doing this. He also denied that they had children at higher rates. However, to have their population swell to approximately160k in such a short period of time...who is he kidding? At that rate they are on track to match the native population very soon.
I hope whatever his personal feelings, he moves ahead with these new policies or we will certainly become BaHaiti within a short period of time. With so much corruption from our government officials we are well on our way.
So until I see tangible results, I am going to sign out of this debate and hope for the best.
On Mitchell: Public backs immigration measures
Posted 9 February 2015, 6:15 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
No, they are not here legally, otherwise they would have been provided with citizenship at birth and not simply the right to apply for citizenship at the age of 18. They belong in Haiti, with their parents.
On Mitchell: Public backs immigration measures
Posted 9 February 2015, 5:48 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
It's just another means to know and record who is in the Bahamas legally or otherwise, via the school system. I think the only way it will work is to have all parents present a birth certificate, passport and/or visa at the time of registration or within a time frame after registration. If the kid is in the school, no visa then likely they will want to speak to the parent to see whether it's the cost, or to skirt immigration. If it's the latter, hopefully repatriation efforts will occur.
On Mitchell: Public backs immigration measures
Posted 9 February 2015, 4:12 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
If their parents are here illegally, then they are as well. They are entitled to apply at 18, it can be rejected.
On Mitchell: Public backs immigration measures
Posted 9 February 2015, 3:59 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
I, and most Bahamians, support this policy 100%. There is nothing being done to these kids. And I am sure you know by now the PM said no child will be denied an education. If illegal immigrants decide to keep their kids out of school for fear of being caught, that is entirely on them. Hopefully, they will be apprehended by some other means.
Children born into disadvantaged circumstances, usually endure the consequences of their parents' sins or shortcomings. For the most part, we seem to readily accept that fact of life. Along the same lines, why should the illegal immigrant parent be absolved of personal responsibility for the impact their actions will have on their kids?
On Mitchell: Public backs immigration measures
Posted 9 February 2015, 3:55 p.m. Suggest removal
ispeakthetruth says...
The letter addressed the rights of Bahamas born children of illegal Haitians, to register as citizens at eighteen. I was responding to that and I maintain that the immigration ministry does have the right implement immigration policy. They have right to know who is in the country and to employ necessary methods to identify and compile a solid number, that is in no way unconstitutional. That is necessary.
The children of illegal immigrants in the Bahamas, sorry to say, essentially inherited the criminal act of their parents because they too are living illegally in the Bahamas. I don't agree that they should have an expectation of citizenship, but they will have that opportunity at eighteen. I have not heard of that law being replaced with policy. Have you?
The new policies are also not discriminatory. Haitians as the largest group of illegals will, of course, be the most affected. Further, nowhere have I read that kids will not be educated for failure to pay visa fees. Your assumption of these issues is premature. If parents decide to again evade officials by not enrolling their kids in school, they will serve yet another injustice to them.
On Citizens in waiting
Posted 7 February 2015, 5:11 p.m. Suggest removal